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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

  1. #491
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    They had plans in motion that could be averted.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    If the 2003 waterboarding of 911 mastermind led to the information that got bin Laden, then why didn't Bush use it?
    because it took years to track down the data

    How a Detainee Became An Asset - washingtonpost.com

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=13512344&page=2

    Bin Laden kill may reopen CIA interrogation debate | Reuters

    WikiLeaks: Osama bin Laden killed after tip-offs from Guantanamo - Telegraph

  3. #493
    Doesn't go below juicy
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't think waterboarding three terrorists under ticking-bomb circumstances constitutes a loss of humanity, decency or morality.
    I would disagree then. An immoral act for any reason is still an immoral act. It may be justified for the greater good, though. Such as stealing food to feed your family. You did good with the stealing, but you still stole.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The CIA can't win, huh? Either they are infallable and the entire WMD thing is a giant conspiracy or they "fell for propaganda" and, in either case, they certainly cannot be trusted (you forgot the !).


    One can't start at a conclusion, or we get a mess like that. If one is going to begin at a conclusion, don't make it so obvious - that defeats the point.
    It's a no-brainer: organizations that habitually lie, by definition, have no credibility.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I've read your links, I've read them before and it doesn't change anything. We have solid proof that EIT works, we do not have solid proof that any other methods are better..


    Tim-
    Where is this solid proof that EIT works?

    All that's avaible from the pro-EIT side are comments from non-authoritative sources or from sources that are under political pressure to say it works.

    Asking a government source about EIT is like asking the WH press secretary whether Obama is a good President

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    It's not that other methods need to be shown as better, it's that it needs to be shown that EITs are more effective than ITs. If the EITS are only as effective as ITs or are less effective then IT should be chosen over EITs.
    Look, I understand the principle of more from sugar than from salt, I get it. That said, even if we had no frame of referance one would logically conclude that enhancing an interrogation would yield superior results, or the very least, results that would otherwise not be forthcoming..


    I don't need anyone to tell me this isn't so, and... If they do suggest that IT's are as effective then you'll have to prove it to me, and provide a relaible way to reproduce the results.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  7. #497
    Holy Crap!
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I would disagree then. An immoral act for any reason is still an immoral act. It may be justified for the greater good, though. Such as stealing food to feed your family. You did good with the stealing, but you still stole.
    Catch me if you can.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Where is this solid proof that EIT works?

    All that's avaible from the pro-EIT side are comments from non-authoritative sources or from sources that are under political pressure to say it works.

    Asking a government source about EIT is like asking the WH press secretary whether Obama is a good President
    Umm.. In case you missed it, EIT was responsible, DIRECTLY responsible for the eventual capture of Bin Laden. It also lead to many interceptions of various terrorists plots purported to have been planned against the USA during the past 9 years.. KSM talked, various other Muslim's talked.. They didn't do it with tea and crumpets either. Look at McCain. He talked, sqeeled like a pigeon when tortured. I know I probably would as well, however with one caveat. My family would come, as always, before my country. That is to say, I would give up information that would otherwise injure or harm fellow American's, but ONLY at the risk of losing a family member as a result. Yeah, I'm a pretty tough guy, but I am under no illusions that I would be able to withstand any amount of torture.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  9. #499
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Look, I understand the principle of more from sugar than from salt, I get it.
    That's fine that you do. But it's kind of tertiary atm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    That said, even if we had no frame of referance one would logically conclude that enhancing an interrogation would yield superior results, or the very least, results that would otherwise not be forthcoming.
    I suppose in your hypothetical construction you may be correct as to what one might conclude.
    Of course, with "no frame of reference" we might also logically conclude that the sun rotates around the earth.
    Okay, I am about done with hypotheticals. You?
    'K then back to the real world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    If they do suggest that IT's are as effective then you'll have to prove it to me, and provide a relaible way to reproduce the results.
    You're welcome to your opinion.
    However, EITs are the things that need to have their quality demonstrated to justify their use.
    I may be wrong.

  10. #500
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Umm.. In case you missed it, EIT was responsible, DIRECTLY responsible for the eventual capture of Bin Laden.
    It is not "DIRECTLY" responsible.
    I may be wrong.

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