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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

    I guess this settles the debate on whether or not waterboarding works. Saved lives, caught terrorist. Good thing really.
    What CNS News printed flies in the face of what many in the intelligence community believe. The CIA is designed to do spying, not torture people. When they torture people, then fewer agents are available for classic intel techniques, which makes attacks on the US more likely, not less likely.

    Interview with CIA agent
    .

    In addition, engaging in torture tends to make the subjects say anything to get the torture to stop, which results in a lot of false information being produced.

    Torture from a military perspective
    .

    So, how do we know that another 911 was prevented? Why is only CNS News making that statement, and not the media in general? Is it because the media in general doesn't buy it, and that CNS News possibly got phony information passed to them that was produced by someone wanting to stop his torture? These are important questions to ask.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Define torture.

    To me, using whatever means necessary to save lives and stopping is not torture.

    Beating some one for days for no reason... that's torture.

    Being cruel, hurtful... causing pain for no legitimate purpose... that's torture.

    Needing to save 1, 10, 1,000 or more lives and having to cause someone discomfort, or yes, even pain. Well, they made the choice to be a part of such events, we need to stop them.

    That's the difference between torture, and extracting vital information.

    All of you, EACH of you "But we cannot torture" people always leave out the fact the people being subjected to such... are terrorist, that desire to kill your fellow man. Why do you care more for the comfort of such people over the lives of innocent people?

    I'll never ever understand that.
    Fortunately, the definition has already been settled and it's not your opinion. Waterboarding was considered torture and therefore illegal before the Bush admin and after.

  3. #43
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Fortunately, the definition has already been settled and it's not your opinion. Waterboarding was considered torture and therefore illegal before the Bush admin and after.
    Fortunantly eh? If there is another terrorist attack, killing hundreds, you can rest well knowing they died because no one was... tortured.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No one's interested in swaying the minds of rabid partisans.
    Then why does FOX NEWS exist?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    Am I the only one who sees the irony in people who always seem to be more worried about the rights of terrorists, criminals, illegal aliens, and drug-addicts than they are about the rights of hard-working tax-paying citizens?

    Why does your side of the issue always say this nonsense? Who said anyone seems to be more worried about the rights of terrorists, criminals, illegal aliens, and drug-addicts than they are about the rights of hard-working tax-paying citizens? I think that protecting the rights of EVERYONE should be our goal. Otherwise they are not inherent rights, they become US citizens rights.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Am I the only one that sees the irony in many of those that scream fascism, tyranny, and socialism with every bailout, environmental protection, or social safety-net, are also some of the biggest defenders of government sanctioned torture, denial of habeas corpus, and warrantless wiretaps?

    You don't trust the government to bail out a bank, but you trust them with torture? You don't trust the government to administer say, unemployment extensions, but you trust them with selectively denying habeas corpus?

    You guys that defend this crap are the very enablers of tyranny and you don't even know it.
    I'm skeptical that something that causes NO bodily harm or physical damage falls under the guidelines of torture. I think there's lots of unwarranted hysteria.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Fortunately, the definition has already been settled and it's not your opinion. Waterboarding was considered torture and therefore illegal before the Bush admin and after.
    Then why did congress vote on this issue in Feb. 2008?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Can we afford not to?

    I would rather see that than the diminution of our rights and the loss of our moral standing and the safety of our citizens and military personnel abroad.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    It's only ironic if you take our positions wildly out of context and grossly misrepresent them.

    If the government has a person in their custody that has information concerning an impending terrorist attack, then yes, I trust them to "torture" that individual. If, however, the government wants to utilize torture in a manner not related to the aforementioned scenario I will not support it.
    And what if no information is gained? What do you tell that person that you tortured? Sorry?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    No, I am just pointing out that if you say to the government "You can torture terrorists and deny them habeas corpus, but you cannot torture anyone else or deny them habeas corpus." Then you are giving the government the power to torture and deny habeas corpus to anyone the government labels as a terrorist. The only thing at that point protecting you from the government torturing you or denying you the right to challenge your accusers is that it has not chose to label you a terrorist.
    That's about as logical as saying that if I permit the government to prosecute and imprison murderers, then I'm permitting the government to prosecute and imprison anyone they label a murderer. And that the only thing protecting me from government prosecution and imprisonment is that it has not labeled me a murderer.


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