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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

  1. #481
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I've read your links, I've read them before and it doesn't change anything. We have solid proof that EIT works, we do not have solid proof that any other methods are better..
    Tim-
    It's not that other methods need to be shown as better, it's that it needs to be shown that EITs are more effective than ITs. If the EITS are only as effective as ITs or are less effective then IT should be chosen over EITs.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    1) I wonder why this is in Mainstream Media. Perhaps we should allow Truthout here too. This should be in Blogs.

    2) If the 2003 waterboarding of 911 mastermind led to the information that got bin Laden, then why didn't Bush use it? Was he buddies with bin Laden? Of course, he wasn't. If waterboarding produced the info, then Bush would have had bin Laden killed by 2005 at the very latest.

    3) It all boils down to CNS News, which produces some of the yellowest journalism in existence. So once again, I ask why is this is mainstream media? Do we allow Truthout, Informationclearinghouse, Newsmax, and similar sites here too, since they also claim to be producing news and not BS?
    Last edited by danarhea; 05-06-11 at 02:43 PM.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    2) Expecting info to lead to mission accomplished by 2005 ("at the latest") is unreasonable.


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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I just want to note, this claim was shown unlikley. As we tharted the plot before we captured KSM. Way back when, I gather this information.
    characteristically incoherent

    are you from detroit?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I found a footnote in the IG report that some here might find interesting. So, I'll share:


    footnote 26

    According to the Chief, Medical Services, OMS was neither consulted nor involved in the initial analysis of the risk and benefits of EITs, nor provided with the OTS report cited in the OLC opinion. In retrospect, based on the OLC extracts of the OTS eport, OMS contends that the reported sophistication of the preliminary EIT review was exaggerated, at least as it related to the waterboard, and the power of this EIT was appreciably overstated in the report. Furthermore, OMS, contends that the expertise of the SERE psychologists/interrogators on the waterboard was probably misrepresented at the time, as the SERE waterboard experience is so different from the subsequent Agency usage as to make it almost irrelevant. Consequently, according to OMS, there was no a priori reason to believe that applying the waterboard with the frequency and intensity with which it was used by the psychologist/interrogators was either efficacious or medically safe.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Why is murder an option?
    because assassination, apparently, is the anti terror tactic employed by barack obama to eliminate ubl from planet earth

    The commandos encountered gunshots from only one man, whom they quickly killed, before sweeping the house and shooting others, who were unarmed, a senior defense official said in the latest account.
    News from The Associated Press

    america is grateful to president obama for NOT dismantling the anti terror tactics employed by his predecessor which allowed our agents and soldiers to GET the target

    gitmo, detention, eit's, wiretapping...

    they all played important roles

    if eit's are wrong how can assassinations be right?

  7. #487
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, this proves it CAN work. It doesn't prove it "does" work, as does suggests it works across the board all the time.

    I think MOST reasonable people can accept that intense interrogation, mild torture, or even extreme torture can all yield legitimate results. As I've stated repeatedly, we would not put our own men in the military through things such as waterboarding and other things in preparation for being able to withstand it if captured if there wasn't a chance that they could give out legitimate information.

    However, the question comes as follows:

    1. Does it yield enough legitimate information on a consistant enough basis that it is worth it.

    2. Does the damage to our integrety as a nation and world standing outweight the potential gains of using such techniques in light of #1.

    3. Are there more effective ways to retrieve said information that is less questionable and has less effect in regards to #2.

    4. Does the potential for over reliance on a tactic whose information may yeild a high amount of false positives outweight the benefit of the legitimate information we can recieve.

    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?

    These are some of the questions I think one must begin to ask themselves once they accept the fact that it IS possible to get legitimate worth while information from not just these kind of techniques but even full out universally held acts of "torture" but also accept the fact that such a process is far from a perfect form of gaining information that does have at least POTENTIAL pitfalls.
    4.
    The real question is whether the victory is worth our collective loss of humanity, decency, and morality.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    The real question is whether the victory is worth our collective loss of humanity, decency, and morality.
    I don't think waterboarding three terrorists under ticking-bomb circumstances constitutes a loss of humanity, decency or morality.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    This can only be based on the premise, that standard techniques weren't used first. "Hey guys, let's start out with waterboarding first instead of a smoke and a beer." No doubt it never crossed their minds to just ask what the prisoner knew, they gagged him immediately and started the waterboarding.
    Does any reasonable person really believe that the CIA ... they didn't use EIT as a last resort? Pulllleazze
    I found it
    it's in section 76
    The interrogations of Al-Nashiri proceeded after [] the necessary Headquarters authorization. [] psychologists/interrogators began Al-Nashiri's interrogations using EITs immediately upon his arrival.
    Last edited by Simon W. Moon; 05-06-11 at 05:08 PM.
    I may be wrong.

  10. #490
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I don't think waterboarding three terrorists under ticking-bomb circumstances constitutes a loss of humanity, decency or morality.
    "ticking-bomb circumstances?"
    What does that mean exactly?
    I may be wrong.

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