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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Yes, but until you can actually demonstrate that information gained from our techniques is poor, then you have no leg to stand on.
    No, it doesn't have to be shown to be poor. It merely has to be shown that it doesn't produce results that are better than other methods. Quite a big difference between "poor" and "not better than."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    You keep suggesting that these other methods are superior, well, I would like very much for you to demonstrate that?
    It would be more accurate to paraphrase what I have been saying as, "There's not been a reason to believe that EITs are worth the trouble when compared to other methods."

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Well, sure. tea and crumpets work when joe enemy is thirsty and hungry, maybe, but what about the guy that doesn't respond to said techniques?
    First, let me point out that this is a type of argument from ignorance. And my level knowledge, ( or lack thereof ), about the ins and outs of interrogating detainees doesn't provide any support for the idea that EITs are better than other methods. Even if I had no answer, it would not mean that EITs are better than other methods nor would it mean that they are not.
    Now that that is out of the way.
    Trickery is a common technique that comes up in the literature.
    I have provided some links in this thread once or twice to some informative literature. I can provide them again if you like.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No, what I mean is that the enemy isn't worth any consideration. If I can't extract information from them, so what? What does it matter that I made them feel uncomfortable in the process?
    Tim-
    Again, the concern isn't about what the detainees--it's about the info we gain from them and the resources necessary to acquire it.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Since when does the left give a damn about morals? Since Bush used a controversial technique that they can use a political baseball bat, that's when. That's all this is, and nothing more. Let's not even go into the FACT that Obama continued on with the evil Bush policies. This is nothing more than political gamesmanship.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Since when does the left give a damn about morals? Since Bush used a controversial technique that they can use a political baseball bat, that's when. That's all this is, and nothing more. Let's not even go into the FACT that Obama continued on with the evil Bush policies. This is nothing more than political gamesmanship.
    We've given Obama a ton of flak for continuing those policies. Man you have a selective memory.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Since when does the left give a damn about morals? Since Bush used a controversial technique that they can use a political baseball bat, that's when. That's all this is, and nothing more. Let's not even go into the FACT that Obama continued on with the evil Bush policies. This is nothing more than political gamesmanship.
    I think you can find quite a few threads in which I have bitched about Obama continuing the idiotic tactics Bush began.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Very useful one liner. Saddam admitted he played up the WMD capabilities of his country, to save face and intimidate Iran. Every western intelligence agency fell for it.
    So the CIA falls for the propoganda of dictators and considers it evidence. Thanks for letting us know--we can all trust the CIA now.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    No, it doesn't have to be shown to be poor. It merely has to be shown that it doesn't produce results that are better than other methods. Quite a big difference between "poor" and "not better than."

    It would be more accurate to paraphrase what I have been saying as, "There's not been a reason to believe that EITs are worth the trouble when compared to other methods."

    First, let me point out that this is a type of argument from ignorance. And my level knowledge, ( or lack thereof ), about the ins and outs of interrogating detainees doesn't provide any support for the idea that EITs are better than other methods. Even if I had no answer, it would not mean that EITs are better than other methods nor would it mean that they are not.
    Now that that is out of the way.
    Trickery is a common technique that comes up in the literature.
    I have provided some links in this thread once or twice to some informative literature. I can provide them again if you like.


    Again, the concern isn't about what the detainees--it's about the info we gain from them and the resources necessary to acquire it.
    I've read your links, I've read them before and it doesn't change anything. We have solid proof that EIT works, we do not have solid proof that any other methods are better..


    Tim-
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    CNSNews.com - CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles

    I guess this settles the debate on whether or not waterboarding works. Saved lives, caught terrorist. Good thing really.
    The debate was never about the efficacy of waterboarding, at least not from me. The debate is regarding the fact that waterboarding is torture, and America does not/should not torture people.
    "Action expresses priorities."
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Holy thread necro batman
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    So the CIA falls for the propoganda of dictators and considers it evidence. Thanks for letting us know--we can all trust the CIA now.
    The CIA can't win, huh? Either they are infallable and the entire WMD thing is a giant conspiracy or they "fell for propaganda" and, in either case, they certainly cannot be trusted (you forgot the !).


    One can't start at a conclusion, or we get a mess like that. If one is going to begin at a conclusion, don't make it so obvious - that defeats the point.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I just want to note, this claim was shown unlikley. As we tharted the plot before we captured KSM. Way back when, I gather this information. I'm not inclined to go do it again, but anyone who wants to can.

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