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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

  1. #421
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    To come here with that opinion demonstrates you don't know didly about the facts of this issue.
    When you're involved in a debate, mere opinion trumps your "facts".

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    There have even been talks of Obama pardoning all eleven of those soldiers who were improperly prosecuted for following the admin's orders and the CIA's directions because it has been proven they were following orders.
    You've been feeding at the DailyKOS again. Oooops, foiled again

    **CORRECTION**
    April 22, 2009 - 12:00 AM ET

    False alarm. For the time being, the Obama administration is content to let Spc. Graner and Staff Sgt. Frederick rot in jail for another six and four years respectively. Apologies for any inconvenience caused by the release of this premature reportage.
    Daily Kos: AP: White House to Pardon Abu Ghraib Soldiers [Correction]

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I won't waste my time playing with you anymore on this issue until you educate yourself on it. Google can help you.
    The premise of all your arguments is:

    Bush & Cheney = guilty.

    Guilty of what, most rational people don't know. The far left however have concocted almost every imaginable charge against them. The result is pretty much the same everytime, alot of bloviating, press conferences, and grandstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I predict all eleven of those soldiers WILL be pardoned. Will I hear from you when they are?
    You betcha
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

  2. #422
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    I predict all eleven of those soldiers WILL be pardoned. Will I hear from you when they are?
    Well that would be an interesting speech from the President.

    "America does not torture! But I'm giving a blanket pardon to those who we've convicted of torture!"

    You think that would boost his already sky high popularity with the world community?


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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I simply cannot understand the rationale for wanting to prosecute the authors of the policy memos. Questions as to the legality of the enhanced interrogation techniques were important, but are not the center of the debate. The issue is whether those who argued that such techniques were not illegal -- and therefore should be available -- ought to be tried.

    They should not. If for no other reason, prosecution would have a seriously chilling effect on future government officials. With the threat of prosecution, serious memos on controversial matters will increasingly become the exception rather than the rule. It would be extremely counterproductive to inhibit the examination of, and the expression in writing, of opinions on controversial matters in the future.

    If there is a fault here that requires attention, it is with the policy and political process. Mid-level officials do not make policy; they seek to influence it through their analysis and recommendations. What is required is a process inside the executive branch in which competing assessments and alternative prescriptions are subject to rigorous scrutiny. And Congress is responsible for effective oversight. Both the previous administration and the Congress failed to meet these tests.

    It has become clear that high-ranking congresspeople from both sides of the aisle were briefed on and endorsed the enhanced interrogation techniques. Yet some, like Nancy Pelosi, are now attempting to disguise their approval. If there is accountability to be sought, then it should be sought at the right level of responsibility.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by oldreliable67 View Post
    I simply cannot understand the rationale for wanting to prosecute the authors of the policy memos.
    Pretty simple. The Democrats and MSM were unable to bring down the Bush administration while in office. They are determined to do it now.

    To go after Bush and Cheney directly would appear too political... so they're using a political version of water torture... in that they can start with a slow drip, drip, drip by investigating lower levels, then move higher along the food chain... Rumsfeld... Cheney... Bush.

    Second, it provides them cover in the event things turn sour in Iraq and Afghanistan under Obama's watch. Great diversion, no?


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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by oldreliable67 View Post
    I simply cannot understand the rationale for wanting to prosecute the authors of the policy memos. Questions as to the legality of the enhanced interrogation techniques were important, but are not the center of the debate. The issue is whether those who argued that such techniques were not illegal -- and therefore should be available -- ought to be tried.
    You're absolutely right, it's not illegal to recommend torture. It's illegal to order and carry out torture. Bush's legal advisors, despite ample historical examples to the contrary, somehow got it into their thick skulls that waterboarding is not torture and proceeded to advise the President accordingly. That's fine, but if the President decides to act on that "advice" then it's his own fault for surrounding himself with and relying on such glaring incompetence in his staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by oldreliable67 View Post
    If there is a fault here that requires attention, it is with the policy and political process. Mid-level officials do not make policy; they seek to influence it through their analysis and recommendations. What is required is a process inside the executive branch in which competing assessments and alternative prescriptions are subject to rigorous scrutiny. And Congress is responsible for effective oversight. Both the previous administration and the Congress failed to meet these tests.

    It has become clear that high-ranking congresspeople from both sides of the aisle were briefed on and endorsed the enhanced interrogation techniques. Yet some, like Nancy Pelosi, are now attempting to disguise their approval. If there is accountability to be sought, then it should be sought at the right level of responsibility.
    Absolutely right again, but I think it should go further than just "who looked the other way." Everyone who ordered torture, carried out torture, or were complacent in allowing torture, should face criminal charges. Everyone.

  6. #426
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    Bush's legal advisors, despite ample historical examples to the contrary, somehow got it into their thick skulls that waterboarding is not torture ....
    Ummmmmm, no. Waterboarding, using the technique prescribed and used by the CIA, does not satisfy any of the definitions of torture that are binding on US Government agents when interrogating unlawful combatants detained in a foreign country.

    The detainees were told before every waterboarding session that they would not be killed. This defeats the "imminent fear of death" and "severe mental anguish" elements that are absolutely essential in any torture accusation. And they were always careful to avoid physically injuring the detainees.

    To make a long story short, waterboarding is not torture. It's very close. But as I've always said on my game show, "Close but no cigar."

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    .....It's illegal to order and carry out torture. .....Everyone who ordered torture, carried out torture, or were complacent in allowing torture, should face criminal charges. Everyone.
    Once more putting such comments into perspective; these are merely OPINIONS which are not supported by the REALITIES or FACTS and when the dust settles and Obama refuses to prosecute these "presumed" criminals who are being tried in the court of "PUBLIC OPINION," will you then condemn the person you so desperately support and voted for with the same vehemence you attack his predecessors with?

    The answer is an OBVIOUS no because this is merely selective hyper partisan outrage and feigned moral outrage reserved for those you politically disagree with.

    When this country begins to turn its legal efforts into criminalizing politics, we will have certainly seen a new turn for the worse, again led by hyper partisan Democrats, in a dangerous new direction that is typically seen in Fascist, Third World Countries or Communist societies, not in Democracies concerned with the rule of law and political decency.

    Last edited by Truth Detector; 05-03-09 at 01:53 PM.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    When you're involved in a debate, mere opinion trumps your "facts".
    Wow. Compelling argument.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    You're absolutely right, it's not illegal to recommend torture.
    It most certainly is if you're a lawyer.
    Thank You Barack Obama for Restoring Honor To The Presidency.
    President Obama will rank as one of our greatest presidents!

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by ADK_Forever View Post
    It most certainly is if you're a lawyer.


    proof?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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