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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Objectively I have no idea why you are dragging "Team Bush" into clear cut declassified memos.
    You are right. The assertions originated from the CIA, and Bush simply repeated what he got from them which is understandable. So I would like to retract and rephrase what I said to this:

    The CIA who says that is the same CIA who says KSM provided intelligence that foiled a plot on the Liberty Tower in 2002, even though KSM wasn't even captured until 2003. Not saying they're lying about getting info from KSM via waterboarding, just saying they could be since they lied about his information having disrupted the LA plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Are you saying once a target has been cleared it wont ever be attacked or targeted again? If it was targeted in 2001 it was never going to be attacked again? That really does not sound accurate.
    No, I'm saying the CIA is lying when they say KSM provided intelligence that thwarted the Liberty Tower attack, because KSM wasn't even in their custody when that plot was thwarted.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    I don't want to derail the thread into another "Bush lied, no he didn't" circle jerk, but I believe strongly that he was not completely honest on a variety of issues, not just terrorism. At any rate, I shouldn't have even mentioned Bush because it's the CIA making these assertions. My fault!

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    You are right. The assertions originated from the CIA, and Bush simply repeated what he got from them which is understandable. So I would like to retract and rephrase what I said to this:

    The CIA who says that is the same CIA who says KSM provided intelligence that foiled a plot on the Liberty Tower in 2002, even though KSM wasn't even captured until 2003. Not saying they're lying about getting info from KSM via waterboarding, just saying they could be since they lied about his information having disrupted the LA plot.


    No, I'm saying the CIA is lying when they say KSM provided intelligence that thwarted the Liberty Tower attack, because KSM wasn't even in their custody when that plot was thwarted.


    I don't want to derail the thread into another "Bush lied, no he didn't" circle jerk, but I believe strongly that he was not completely honest on a variety of issues, not just terrorism. At any rate, I shouldn't have even mentioned Bush because it's the CIA making these assertions. My fault!


    I think you may be right in the sense there is no such thing as a Liberty Tower in Los Angeles.
    Maybe the terrorists got it and we didnt notice.

    If the CIA was talking about it they were lying. My bad.
    Thank you

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    I think you may be right in the sense there is no such thing as a Liberty Tower in Los Angeles.
    ROFL I didn't notice that until now! Good catch...

    Bush: We believe the intended target was Liberty Tower in Los Angeles, California.

    I'm pretty sure he meant the Library Tower, AKA the U.S. Bank Tower.



    U.S. Bank Tower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    ROFL I didn't notice that until now! Good catch...
    As usual the whole thing stems from the previous president being unable to speak in public. He might not have even been talking about Los Angeles.
    Thank you

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    As usual the whole thing stems from the previous president being unable to speak in public. He might not have even been talking about Los Angeles.
    Oh, he specifically said the plot targetted the "tallest building on the West coast." Links to the transcript already provided.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    he specifically said
    exactly.



    He also inadvertantly called the Prime minister of Spain a goose.
    Thank you

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Apparently the vast majority of intelligence agents disagree with that.

    So you are saying the vast majority of intelligence agents would disagree with the following statement:

    Whereas cutting off a testicle and shoving it down his throat... Well, there is more of a chance that the simple threat of doing that might yield more results than asking nicely would.
    I take it you must have read the CIA's comprehensive study entitled Efficacy of the Threat of Partial Castration and Force Fed Testicle Interrogation Technique compared to the efficacy of the Ask Really Nicely Technique: Why offering tea yields more results than gonad dismemberment


    Seriously, you got any links from these intel agents from reputable sources (i.e. not ihateneocons.com)?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    he specifically said
    exactly.

    He also inadvertantly called the Prime minister of Spain a goose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Binary_Digit View Post
    the plot targetted the "tallest building on the West coast."
    *crickets*
    Maybe I don't know what your position is anymore.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron View Post
    As usual the whole thing stems from the previous president being unable to speak in public.
    Well then Obama is Bush III, he can't speak without a teleprompter. I mean if he actually knew the subject matter, he could have ad libbed a few sentences:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdRQeIWhslU"]YouTube - President Obama vs Telepromter[/ame]

    With that said, the whole issue of waterboarding is moot. Obama has outlawed the technique and the story has fallen off the face of the earth.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-par...post1058005217
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, this proves it CAN work. It doesn't prove it "does" work, as does suggests it works across the board all the time.

    I think MOST reasonable people can accept that intense interrogation, mild torture, or even extreme torture can all yield legitimate results. As I've stated repeatedly, we would not put our own men in the military through things such as waterboarding and other things in preparation for being able to withstand it if captured if there wasn't a chance that they could give out legitimate information.

    However, the question comes as follows:

    1. Does it yield enough legitimate information on a consistant enough basis that it is worth it.

    2. Does the damage to our integrety as a nation and world standing outweight the potential gains of using such techniques in light of #1.

    3. Are there more effective ways to retrieve said information that is less questionable and has less effect in regards to #2.

    4. Does the potential for over reliance on a tactic whose information may yeild a high amount of false positives outweight the benefit of the legitimate information we can recieve.

    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?

    These are some of the questions I think one must begin to ask themselves once they accept the fact that it IS possible to get legitimate worth while information from not just these kind of techniques but even full out universally held acts of "torture" but also accept the fact that such a process is far from a perfect form of gaining information that does have at least POTENTIAL pitfalls.
    4.
    What other countries, that have engaged in military actions, have worried about their world standing at the time. Why are we the superpower? Because we can kick ass AND take names. And if those names keep our troops alive versus theirs, then I'm willing to put their troops through major discomfort. I haven't heard anyone say that anyone was maimed or killed from waterboarding. Let's ask ourselves how moral is war, and whether the morality of war matters. We have rules of war they we try to govern ourselves by, but they are really guidance because war is chaotic. Our enemy does not have any rules, except what Islam may dictate which appears to have no limits. To achieve victory, which is the entire premise of war, we must adjust to our enemy. I would only expect us to maintain the highest standard just short of risking our troops and victory, and after that we do what we have to.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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