Page 3 of 55 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 550

Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

  1. #21
    Sage
    First Thought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Last Seen
    12-01-10 @ 03:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    6,218

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    You know, the more I've thought about this issue the more I become convinced that had a President Obama been president during a major terrorist attack and had it been a Democratic administration interrogating these captured al qaeda suspects... the world community would never blink an eye about any of this.

    No doubt in my mind. This whole 'torture' issue has been and always was a Bush bashing hate-fest. Nothing more.

    Well thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion presented as fact.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    So torture is bad, but its okay to do it, if we have a legitimate good chance to get information from the person?
    We must first agree on what constitutes "torture". If someone is aware of an impending terrorist attack and we use pain and even the threat of death to extract information from them, I do not consider it torture. I consider it a legitimate interrogation method employed to extract information relevant to our national security.

    How good of a chance should it be? Should there be any kind of accountable party that determines if its such? Should there be reprucussions if its found that the chance was far less than the people doing it claimed in some sort of substantial way? Should there be varying levels of torture allowed for varying chances? IE if its a 50% chance he has information its okay to waterboard but if its 90% chance he has information its okay to mutilate.
    These are all valid considerations. Like I said, discretion must be inherent to any interrogation or intelligence operation. We cannot simply go around mutilating individuals willy-nilly in the hopes we will randomly extract relevant information from one of them. However, if we possess virtually indisputable evidence that someone possesses information concerning an impending terrorist attack I believe "torture" must be an option.

  3. #23
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Last Seen
    12-27-09 @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,010

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Am I the only one that sees the irony in many of those that scream fascism, tyranny, and socialism with every bailout, environmental protection, or social safety-net, are also some of the biggest defenders of government sanctioned torture, denial of habeas corpus, and warrantless wiretaps?
    Am I the only one who sees the irony in people who always seem to be more worried about the rights of terrorists, criminals, illegal aliens, and drug-addicts than they are about the rights of hard-working tax-paying citizens?


  4. #24
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    All of you, EACH of you "But we cannot torture" people always leave out the fact the people being subjected to such... are terrorist, that desire to kill your fellow man. Why do you care more for the comfort of such people over the lives of innocent people?

    I'll never ever understand that.
    Because in the end, human is human. Terrorist or no, they are still human. I think we should work hard to limit torture as much as possible. There are too many different things which can get involved if we take it as standard operating procedure. And how good is the information? I'm sure from time to time you're bound to get something; does that ok the use of torture? Even if it catches some innocents in with it? The entire "there's a bomb going to explode, only torturing this terrorist will get you the information you need" scenario is ridiculously rare. And what's to say you have the right guy, or the information will be correct? It's too inconsistent, too many things can be exploited and abused. It's best to do our best to avoid it.

    Terrorists may do despicable acts, but that doesn't mean we have to reciprocate. We're better than they are, we can show mercy even to those whom wish us harm.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #25
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm not even one of those "we cannot torture" people...

    But can you guarantee that 100% of the time that these things happen they always occur to someone that is legitimately a terrorist....let alone someone that has actually violated ANY law or someone that actually has any information?
    Can we afford not to?

    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  6. #26
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Like ending them? Ending lives to save lives seems futile. All life is important, not just the lives of Americans.

    So what happens when no vital information is extracted? Then you have beaten someone for days and nothing was gained. But that's okay, because it's only Americans that count, right?

    I care for the comfort of all people, not just those who were born in my country by chance.
    You really think this is "just about Americans"?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  7. #27
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    04-02-15 @ 06:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    8,211

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Am I the only one that sees the irony in many of those that scream fascism, tyranny, and socialism with every bailout, environmental protection, or social safety-net, are also some of the biggest defenders of government sanctioned torture, denial of habeas corpus, and warrantless wiretaps?

    You don't trust the government to bail out a bank, but you trust them with torture? You don't trust the government to administer say, unemployment extensions, but you trust them with selectively denying habeas corpus?

    You guys that defend this crap are the very enablers of tyranny and you don't even know it.
    It's only ironic if you take our positions wildly out of context and grossly misrepresent them.

    If the government has a person in their custody that has information concerning an impending terrorist attack, then yes, I trust them to "torture" that individual. If, however, the government wants to utilize torture in a manner not related to the aforementioned scenario I will not support it.

  8. #28
    Pragmatist
    SouthernDemocrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    KC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:51 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    17,420

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Grateful Heart View Post
    You know, the more I've thought about this issue the more I become convinced that had a President Obama been president during a major terrorist attack and had it been a Democratic administration interrogating these captured al qaeda suspects... the world community would never blink an eye about any of this.

    No doubt in my mind. This whole 'torture' issue has been and always was a Bush bashing hate-fest. Nothing more.

    Yes, Lyndon Johnson sure was lucky that Democrats are never criticized in anyway for lying about the justification for war, or any types of atrocities against enemies.

    If Obama did everything Bush did, he would be as universally disliked and as unpopular as Bush was. It is what Bush did while in office that made him so unpopular at home and abroad.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  9. #29
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Am I the only one that sees the irony in many of those that scream fascism, tyranny, and socialism with every bailout, environmental protection, or social safety-net, are also some of the biggest defenders of government sanctioned torture, denial of habeas corpus, and warrantless wiretaps?

    You don't trust the government to bail out a bank, but you trust them with torture? You don't trust the government to administer say, unemployment extensions, but you trust them with selectively denying habeas corpus?

    You guys that defend this crap are the very enablers of tyranny and you don't even know it.
    By definition, terrorist forfeit their rights, and if they are not American citizens, the Constitution doesn't apply to them ANYWAY.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  10. #30
    Educator Grateful Heart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Last Seen
    12-27-09 @ 03:58 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,010

    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    Well thanks for your unsubstantiated opinion presented as fact.
    Thanks once again for taking the time to point out that message boards posts must always be factual statements... and never matters of opinion, speculation, or belief.

    By the way, when a poster says 'I'm convinced' or 'There's no doubt in my mind,' that's a clear indication that an opinion is coming.

    There's no doubt in my mind, for instance, that you often go off on irrelevant tangents. That does mean I'm stating it as a fact.


Page 3 of 55 FirstFirst 123451353 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •