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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Fortunantly eh? If there is another terrorist attack, killing hundreds, you can rest well knowing they died because no one was... tortured.
    This is a hilarious statement. Watch this:

    Fortunantly eh? If there is another terrorist attack, killing hundreds, you can rest well knowing they died because no one was... eating macaroni.

    See? If you do not have to back up your asinine statements, neither do I.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    you are posing a scenario from the movies and television which, to my knowledge, has never occured, and are using it as a general justification for torture. If a 24 type ticking time bomb situation really existed, don't you think a terrorist could hold out till the bomb went off? And that's the best justification you have.
    It would be nice if you actually went beyond your DailyKOS rantings and actually educated yourself on the facts.

    Here are some of the leads/arrests/prosecutions of the people whose identities were brought to light from enhanced interrogation techniques.

    KSM told American officials about Iyman Faris. The 37-year-old Kashmir native became an American citizen in December 1999, CNN reports. He worked as a truck driver and moonlighted for al Qaeda. He procured some 2,000 sleeping bags for use in al Qaeda’s training camps while visiting Pakistan and Afghanistan in 2000-2001. He delivered cash, cell phones, and plane tickets to al Qaeda contacts. On the home front, Faris conspired to sabotage a train in Washington, D.C., inspected the Brooklyn Bridge for vulnerabilities, and began seeking acetylene torches to sever the span’s suspension cables and plunge it 119 feet into New York’s East River.

    On May 1, 2003, Faris pleaded guilty to providing material support to al Qaeda and conspiring to do so. He currently is serving a 20-year jail sentence for these crimes.

    “By providing everything from initial leads to photo identifications to precise locations of where terrorists were hiding,” President Bush observed September 6, “this program has helped us to take potential mass murderers off the streets before they were able to kill.”


    Terrorist Rogues’ Gallery by Deroy Murdock on National Review Online
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    This is a hilarious statement. Watch this:

    Fortunantly eh? If there is another terrorist attack, killing hundreds, you can rest well knowing they died because no one was... eating macaroni.

    See? If you do not have to back up your asinine statements, neither do I.
    Ah yes, pure genius in the rationale dept.

    Let's take a trip back down memory lane.

    "Connect the dots".
    How does one?
    Where does the vital info come from.

    From thin air?

    It's not to say every case or even a faction of a fraction of a percent may require it, but the tools should be there to extract info.

    For the rest of you who don't like it... you can eat macaroni... but don't come crying to us about "Connecting the dots" or any further BS when we are unsuccessful in stopping a future attack... because somebody wasn't allowed to use methods that Cinderella wouldn't approve of.

    A little like Gorellick putting up a firewall between the intel agencies... sounded so nice then... protecting the terrorists... but look what their "we are nice people" policies wrought.

    You folks are an odd bunch... you find it OK when AIG execs are targeted by the President and his cronies... and fear for their lives and family. That's OK, but making suspects that could have info vital to our security and it's "no, no, no... we are not that kind of people".

    .
    Last edited by zimmer; 04-23-09 at 12:45 PM.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Ah yes, pure genius in the rationale dept.

    Let's take a trip back down memory lane.

    "Connect the dots".
    How does one?
    Where does the vital info come from.

    From thin air?

    It's not to say every case or even a faction of a fraction of a percent may require it, but the tools should be there to extract info.

    For the rest of you who don't like it... you can eat macaroni... but don't come crying to us about "Connecting the dots" or any further BS when we are unsuccessful in stopping a future attack... because somebody wasn't allowed to use methods that Cinderella wouldn't approve of.

    A little like Gorellick putting up a firewall between the intel agencies... sounded so nice then... protecting the terrorists... but look what their "we are nice people" policies wrought.

    You folks are an odd bunch... you find it OK when AIG execs are targeted by the President and his cronies... and fear for their lives and family. That's OK, but making suspects that could have info vital to our security and it's "no, no, no... we are not that kind of people".

    .
    Like always, you miss the point and then proceed to post a comical diatribe. Vicchio said:

    "Fortunantly eh? If there is another terrorist attack, killing hundreds, you can rest well knowing they died because no one was... tortured."

    This implies that every terrorist attack could be avoided by torturing people. Anyone with half of a brain knows that that is a ridiculous statement.
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    It would be nice if you actually went beyond your DailyKOS rantings and actually educated yourself on the facts.

    Here are some of the leads/arrests/prosecutions of the people whose identities were brought to light from enhanced interrogation techniques.

    KSM told American officials about Iyman Faris. The 37-year-old Kashmir native became an American citizen in December 1999, CNN reports. He worked as a truck driver and moonlighted for al Qaeda. He procured some 2,000 sleeping bags for use in al Qaeda’s training camps while visiting Pakistan and Afghanistan in 2000-2001. He delivered cash, cell phones, and plane tickets to al Qaeda contacts. On the home front, Faris conspired to sabotage a train in Washington, D.C., inspected the Brooklyn Bridge for vulnerabilities, and began seeking acetylene torches to sever the span’s suspension cables and plunge it 119 feet into New York’s East River.

    On May 1, 2003, Faris pleaded guilty to providing material support to al Qaeda and conspiring to do so. He currently is serving a 20-year jail sentence for these crimes.

    “By providing everything from initial leads to photo identifications to precise locations of where terrorists were hiding,” President Bush observed September 6, “this program has helped us to take potential mass murderers off the streets before they were able to kill.”


    Terrorist Rogues’ Gallery by Deroy Murdock on National Review Online

    Oh you mean this Iyman Faris, the one who was hired by the FBI after KSM fingered him? Some threat, considering he was actually employed as a double agent:

    On March 19 2003, Faris was visited by two FBI agents and an anti-terror officer, who confronted him with testimony from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, and the results of an intercepted telephone call. Faris was reportedly friendly and accommodating, and agreed to let the agents search his apartment the following day.[5]

    He was then granted a deal to work as a double agent, reporting to the FBI.
    BTW, the idea of cutting through the cables of the
    Brooklyn Bridge is in the Top Ten of DumbAss terrorist plot ideas, along with blowing up JFK airport by setting fire to fuel lines, and overrunning an army base by posing as pizza delivery men. If this is the best information we got from torturing detainees, it wasn't worth it.
    Last edited by WillRockwell; 04-23-09 at 01:05 PM.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Fortunantly eh? If there is another terrorist attack, killing hundreds, you can rest well knowing they died because no one was... tortured.
    So you're saying that if we'd been torturing people before 9/11, it could have been prevented?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Yet actual participants keep saying that torture isn't necessary.
    Under traditional interrogation methods, he [Abu Zubaydah] provided us with important actionable intelligence.
    [...]
    There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified.

    Ali Soufan was an F.B.I. supervisory special agent from 1997 to 2005.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/op...r=2&ref=global
    Mr. Soufan questions the statements and timelines of 'harsh technique approval' from the memos.
    Defenders of these techniques have claimed that they got Abu Zubaydah to give up information leading to the capture of Ramzi bin al-Shibh, a top aide to Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, and Mr. Padilla. This is false. The information that led to Mr. Shibh’s capture came primarily from a different terrorist operative who was interviewed using traditional methods. As for Mr. Padilla, the dates just don’t add up: the harsh techniques were approved in the memo of August 2002, Mr. Padilla had been arrested that May.
    Speaking of timelines.

    The article cited in the OP states that Khalid Sheik Mohammed gave up information about a planned attack on Los Angeles because of the use of 'enhanced techniques'.

    A press release by the White House in May of 2007 states...
    In 2002, we broke up a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast. During a hearing at Guantanamo Bay two months ago, KSM stated that the intended target was the Library Tower in Los Angeles.

    Fact Sheet: Keeping America Safe From Attack
    The White House says they broke up a planned west coast attack in 2002, but Khalid Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 1, 2003.

    If it wasn't KSM, who provided the information concerning the 2002 west coast planned attack the WH speaks of?

    Was it because of 'enhanced techniques' or regular tactics?

    I can't find any information that ties Zubaydah or Nashiri (the other two that are mentioned, along with KSM, to being approved to use 'enhanced techniques' on ) to giving up anything concerning a west coast attack.

    So, how did the WH foil this west coast plot without the use of 'enhanced techniques'?




    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell
    BTW, the idea of cutting through the cables of the
    Brooklyn Bridge is in the Top Ten of DumbAss terrorist plot ideas, along with blowing up JFK airport by setting fire to fuel lines, and overrunning an army base by posing as pizza delivery men. If this is the best information we got from torturing detainees, it wasn't worth it.
    Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that too...
    Last edited by BWG; 04-23-09 at 01:19 PM.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I'm skeptical that something that causes NO bodily harm or physical damage falls under the guidelines of torture. I think there's lots of unwarranted hysteria.
    Something that does no bodily harm? You can die from waterboarding. Quite easily in fact.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Then why did congress vote on this issue in Feb. 2008?
    Because our politicians are stupid? You tell me.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Really? When exactly did the US government outlaw waterboarding?
    When we became a signatory of the Geneva Conventions and then prosecuted people for waterboarding as a war crime.

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