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Thread: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attac

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The constitution is a document that limits the powers of the federal government wherever that power is exercised regardless of whether its in Chicago or leased land in Cuba.
    This is false; please cite any constitutional authority on the US Constitution who would make this claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    How is it false? If you allow the government to torture those who are deemed enemies of the state, then what protects anyone from being labeled as an enemy of the state?
    Because you are ignoring the FACT that what occurred does not fit your version of the facts.

    The people who these enhanced methods were used on were unlawful illegal combatants captured in foreign lands fighting against our troops. They donít represent a nation and they were not captured on US soil and they were attempting to kill US/Coalition troops.

    Once more for the sake of clarity and coherent argument, please try to remain cognizant that we are debating REAL facts and assertions not those fabricated in your mind.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    We have no idea how it worked out. You don't need WMDs to perform terrorist acts.
    Certainly don't. However, does that mean if anyone is alleged a terrorist we have just right to go in under an occupational war? Even if the alleged is a leader of a sovereign country? Without formal declaration of war, we're then in the right to go in and take out that government, remove the leader, occupy the country, and try to create some government in the image of our government? Even if chances are it won't be long term stable?

    I think there was plenty to have done before we went the route we did. I also don't think that Saddam had much to do with terrorists that wasn't just antagonistic. There were not massive terrorist camps (at least not on the scale there are in Saudi Arabia), and Saddam was just running his mouth against the US for the most part. I think in the end he liked be dictator and would have preferred to act in a way not to actually threaten the US so that he may remain the dictator. But that's done and over with. We do need to learn from this mistake, however. It has taken far too long, cost far too much money, and wasted far too many lives of our military.

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Putin warns Bush that Saddam is planning terrorist attacks. Bush ignores him. Saddam comits terrorist acts against the US.
    Why would he have to be successful if he tried? Is there no option for us having stopped him? Had Saddam been the one to orchestrate and initiate the attacks of 9/11 against us; I would have said Iraq is a viable target (I wouldn't say we had to bring them democracy). But they didn't, they didn't have anything to do with it in any real sense. We got distracted, we got bogged down, and it's cost us dearly. Those are the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    The people demand George Bush's head on a platter for ignoring Putin's clear warning.
    Demand his head on a platter anyway. All the stuff that's coming out now about his administration....he was doing some shady **** against the American people. Too much government, that's the real problem.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I bet the dude that is the supposed mastermind of 9/11 is ****ing hallucinating.

    Scientists Claim CIA Misused Work on Sleep Deprivation - TIME

    The study in question by Kundermann, which was published in 2004 in the journal Psychosomatic Medicine, found that people who were deprived of sleep for one night had an increased sensitivity to certain types of pain. Two Justice Department memos, dated May 10, 2005, cited this study as justification to conclude that severe sleep deprivation of up to 180 consecutive hours might cause some increased pain but not "severe physical pain" when used in conjunction with facial slaps, stress positions, water dousing and walling, in which a detainee is slammed against a flexible wall.

    "Because sleep deprivation appears to cause at most only relatively moderate decreases in pain tolerance, the use of these techniques in combination with extended sleep deprivation would not be expected to cause severe physical pain," wrote Steven Bradbury, a principal deputy assistant attorney general in the Office of Legal Counsel, who authored the memos.

    Kundermann, who found out about the CIA's use of his work from a TIME reporter, said his research did not justify the Justice Department's conclusion. "We were working with healthy volunteers and didn't deprive them of sleep for more than one day without allowing them to recover," he said. "Even under these circumstances, certain changes can occur, such as hallucinations, depending on the individual's condition."
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Am I reading your statements correctly here and see them as directed at the USA?

    If so, they are beyond patently false; they are incredibly offensive.
    Its obvious in context that I was referring to Russia.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin
    5. Does the use of such techniques raise the likihood that our soldiers in future wars against groups that previously did not routinely use such techniques or worse will be subject to such techniques due to the expectation that the U.S. will be doing it to theirs?
    The techniques described in the report are pretty mild when compared to the decapitation practiced by Muslim radicals.

    Did you note also that the techniques described were those that our military submits to in SERE training? Did you note that the implementation guidelines for those techniques were governed by experience gained by subjecting our military to them during SERE training over quite a long period of time?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Its obvious in context that I was referring to Russia.
    I missed that; my appologies.

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    I think the term "torture" has the same reaction to it that "Nuclear Power" did during the 80's and even to today. Despite all evidence, there are those people that think "ZOMG AMERICA TORTURED WTFBBQ!!!!11!1"

    And all other thought goes out.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by oldreliable67 View Post
    The techniques described in the report are pretty mild when compared to the decapitation practiced by Muslim radicals.

    Did you note also that the techniques described were those that our military submits to in SERE training? Did you note that the implementation guidelines for those techniques were governed by experience gained by subjecting our military to them during SERE training over quite a long period of time?
    So if we now train them to resist even more radical training we can now torture our captives or invasion a little harder?

    What if their people compared us to our radicals? Like men decapitating people on public buses for no reason at all. Or greedy men selling illegal weapons to young men in our very own country so they could 2 man storm a school.
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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I think the term "torture" has the same reaction to it that "Nuclear Power" did during the 80's and even to today. Despite all evidence, there are those people that think "ZOMG AMERICA TORTURED WTFBBQ!!!!11!1"

    And all other thought goes out.
    If the Bush administration had a fraction of the competence you credit them with, they would have captured Osama binLaden, and certainly would not have started an unrelated conflict until that job was done. Why would I believe anything they say about the results of their torture, when they can't accomplish the most basic retaliation?

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    Re: CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style A

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    If the Bush administration had a fraction of the competence you credit them with, they would have captured Osama binLaden, and certainly would not have started an unrelated conflict until that job was done. Why would I believe anything they say about the results of their torture, when they can't accomplish the most basic retaliation?



    How is Obama's hunt for bin laden coming along?
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