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Thread: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

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    Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    From the article: "Former Vice President Dick Cheney says the U.S. government gained valuable intelligence from its aggressive interrogations of high-value detainees after the September 2001 terrorist attacks.

    The government's methods are described in documents newly released by the Obama administration and have drawn new scrutiny over what might be appropriate treatment — or what might be construed as torture."


    What Cheney and his neo-con imperialist cohorts fail to understand is that the ends do not justify the means.

    Yes...of course torture sometimes works, however, it doesn't mean that it is right...and more importantly we should never mortgage our morals and standards as a country to fight our enemies by their methods. When we do that, we have already not only lost the battle, but we've lost the war...and any possible victory would be a shallow one at best.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    I wonder how much true information to false information is gained through torture. Certainly not everything is going to be true, and I dare say that someone being tortured would be very eager to admit to or agree with near anything (besides more torture). I don't think it's entirely accurate, and the fact of the matter is that its practice is not morally acceptable nor does it only get that one bad guy who knows where the bomb is. There are going to be lots of innocents or people without the knowledge who get caught up in it as well. It's best to avoid the whole thing...but then again that's almost my opinion on the Iraq war.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Iraq is still unstable and Bin Laden is still free. Obviously the information they gained wasn't game winning.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    [url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_interrogations_cheney]What Cheney and his neo-con imperialist cohorts fail to understand is that the ends do not justify the means.
    That's really easy for you to say. Of course, you didn't lose any family members on 9/11 and maybe if one of those attacks which had been prevented had been successful and killed some of your family members you'd be singing a different tune.

    Yes...of course torture sometimes works, however, it doesn't mean that it is right...and more importantly we should never mortgage our morals and standards as a country to fight our enemies by their methods. When we do that, we have already not only lost the battle, but we've lost the war...and any possible victory would be a shallow one at best.
    Yep, cause the CIA was out there cutting peoples' heads off purely for the propaganda value and intentionally killing thousands of civilians. We've TOTALLY stooped to their level.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    That's really easy for you to say. Of course, you didn't lose any family members on 9/11 and maybe if one of those attacks which had been prevented had been successful and killed some of your family members you'd be singing a different tune.
    This person had a friend die in one of those attacks. He was on the first plane that went into the World Trade Center. I feel the same way disneydude does. Just FYI.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    1) Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention.

    2) Terrorists are willing to murder anyone for their evil goals.

    3) Torture works.

    Given the above, there's no logical or moral reason to be opposed to the torture of terrorists to prevent future acts of terrorism.

    Then again, the world is overcrowded with whiny panty-waists who claim a pirate is just an underfed misguided teenager.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    That's really easy for you to say. Of course, you didn't lose any family members on 9/11 and maybe if one of those attacks which had been prevented had been successful and killed some of your family members you'd be singing a different tune.
    Thats why we don't leave questions of justice and morality to the victims of a crime. For example, if someone killed someone in my family, then if it were up to me, I would probably just take them out and shoot them. However, thats exactly why it would not be left up to me, and thus they would get a fair trial and would be sentenced by the judge and not by me.


    Yep, cause the CIA was out there cutting peoples' heads off purely for the propaganda value and intentionally killing thousands of civilians. We've TOTALLY stooped to their level.
    Actions by the CIA over the years have resulted in hundreds of thousands if not millions of deaths. Intelligence agencies have long had a history of excess and the violation of human rights. That is why we should always be vigilant in overseeing and governing their activities.

    1954

    Guatemala — CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz has threatened to nationalize the Rockefeller-owned United Fruit Company, in which CIA Director Allen Dulles also owns stock. Arbenz is replaced with a series of right-wing dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years.

    1959

    Haiti — The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. He creates his own private police force, the "Tonton Macoutes," who terrorize the population with machetes. They will kill over 100,000 during the Duvalier family reign. The U.S. does not protest their dismal human rights record.

    1964

    Brazil — A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. The junta that replaces it will, in the next two decades, become one of the most bloodthirsty in history. General Castelo Branco will create Latin America’s first death squads, or bands of secret police who hunt down "communists" for torture, interrogation and murder. Often these "communists" are no more than Branco’s political opponents. Later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads.

    1965

    Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.


    The list goes on and on.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    1) Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention.

    2) Terrorists are willing to murder anyone for their evil goals.

    3) Torture works.

    Given the above, there's no logical or moral reason to be opposed to the torture of terrorists to prevent future acts of terrorism.

    Then again, the world is overcrowded with whiny panty-waists who claim a pirate is just an underfed misguided teenager.
    Your first two points may be accurate, your third point is nonsense, the evidence against it overwhelming. You would have us believe someone who cannot justify torture is a "panty-waist"....well I tell you that a man who tortures or condones torture is a coward, who lacks the intelligence and bravery to confront his enemies. Dick Cheney is a coward, and I am embarrased that he is an American.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Thats why we don't leave questions of justice and morality to the victims of a crime. For example, if someone killed someone in my family, then if it were up to me, I would probably just take them out and shoot them. However, thats exactly why it would not be left up to me, and thus they would get a fair trial and would be sentenced by the judge and not by me.
    So your solution is to let thousands of people die and then give them a fair trial where no amount of punishment can make up for the damage they have caused?

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    So your solution is to let thousands of people die and then give them a fair trial where no amount of punishment can make up for the damage they have caused?
    My solution is simply that if something is universally regarded as torture, and if we have in our history actually prosecuted others for engaging in it, then we should not do it.

    Why not torture murder suspects? In any given year roughly 8 times as many people are murdered in the United States than were killed on September 11th, 2001. So why not torture murder suspects if we are willing to torture terrorist suspects?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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