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Thread: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    My solution is simply that if something is universally regarded as torture, and if we have in our history actually prosecuted others for engaging in it, then we should not do it.

    Why not torture murder suspects? In any given year roughly 8 times as many people are murdered in the United States than were killed on September 11th, 2001. So why not torture murder suspects if we are willing to torture terrorist suspects?
    These techniques were not used as punishment. They were used to discover other al-queda members to prevent future attacks.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    1) Terrorists aren't covered by the Geneva Convention.

    2) Terrorists are willing to murder anyone for their evil goals.

    3) Torture works.

    Given the above, there's no logical or moral reason to be opposed to the torture of terrorists to prevent future acts of terrorism.
    I think all three of these points are factually true -- but your conclusion doesn't follow from it.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    The Obama administration needs to step up to the plate and get to the truth. Cheney is right, release the documents showing the results of the interrogation techniques. It's time to put the myth that torture doesn't work to bed.

    Obama, CIA chief patch up interrogation-memo rift | Reuters
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    The Obama administration needs to step up to the plate and get to the truth. Cheney is right, release the documents showing the results of the interrogation techniques. It's time to put the myth that torture doesn't work to bed.

    Obama, CIA chief patch up interrogation-memo rift | Reuters
    The "results" of interrogation were trumpeted years ago in the NYT, a long list of operations "given up" by tortured terrorists. They all turned out to be phony, and the list Cheney wants released is probably phony too, in fact it's probably the same list.

    The only myth that needs to be put to bed is the myth that torture works. It only works on 24, in the real world the intelligence professionals all say it doesn't work. Not only does it not work, but it generates increased enlistment in terror groups, and I don't think anyone is stupid enough to want that.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The "results" of interrogation were trumpeted years ago in the NYT, a long list of operations "given up" by tortured terrorists. They all turned out to be phony, and the list Cheney wants released is probably phony too, in fact it's probably the same list.

    The only myth that needs to be put to bed is the myth that torture works. It only works on 24, in the real world the intelligence professionals all say it doesn't work. Not only does it not work, but it generates increased enlistment in terror groups, and I don't think anyone is stupid enough to want that.
    Then there's no harm in releasing the results. You're taking at face value that these memos recently released are accurate, then you'll have no problem embracing the other documents either.

    It's win/win for all.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    The Obama administration needs to step up to the plate and get to the truth. Cheney is right, release the documents showing the results of the interrogation techniques. It's time to put the myth that torture doesn't work to bed.

    Obama, CIA chief patch up interrogation-memo rift | Reuters
    I don't know if that will make a difference. It would require torture to have absolutely zero or a negative return for those that support it to accept it's not worth it. If even 1 torturee out of 100 gave a positive lead that resulted in lives being saved then those that support torture will see it well worth the negative efforts. It wouldn't even matter if other people died due to the false leads that were followed.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    I would definitely condone coersive methods as long as:

    1) due process for coercion is established and followed.

    2) the incident is well documented and available for public knowledge for prosecution of any misconduct.

    3) Life can be saved if the expected information is retrieved.
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    The "results" of interrogation were trumpeted years ago in the NYT, a long list of operations "given up" by tortured terrorists. They all turned out to be phony, and the list Cheney wants released is probably phony too, in fact it's probably the same list.

    The only myth that needs to be put to bed is the myth that torture works. It only works on 24, in the real world the intelligence professionals all say it doesn't work. Not only does it not work, but it generates increased enlistment in terror groups, and I don't think anyone is stupid enough to want that.
    I'd be interested in hearing about. Though again, I sort of think all this stuff should really be kept private. But Obama released the memos and is now in apologetic mode as well as reminding us that our troops will behave now and cease acting like barbarians since he's in charge.

    If they got good info and they got documents showing that they were able to use waterboarding as an effective technique of gathering information which caused no bodily harm then I'd find that very interesting.

    I call BS on waterboarding leading to "increased enlistment" in terror groups. I think Obama going on tv announcing how sweet and nice we're gonna be and how we're gonna redefine torture to include anything that causes even momentary mental anguish or stress has a far greater chance of increasing enlistment.

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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    I think Obama going on tv announcing how sweet and nice we're gonna be and how we're gonna redefine torture to include anything that causes even momentary mental anguish or stress has a far greater chance of increasing enlistment.
    Do you seriously believe that potential terrorists sit around and decide whether to join a terrorist group based on whether the US is going to torture them if they are caught? "Oh...well since Obama announced he's not going to torture, I'm going to sign up...whew....that's a relief because if the US continued to torture, I was going to have to have second thoughts?....sounds kinda silly right?
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    Re: Cheney: US gained information from interrogations

    Release the documents that show the results or shut up.

    Simple as that.



    No more of this we're going to demonize people for actions we know very little to nothing about coupled with claiming things are a failure based on nothing but our idealistic based opinions.



    Put up or shut up Obama.
    Last edited by Triad; 04-21-09 at 08:23 PM.

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