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Research on Lesser-Known Nazi Sites Is Now Public

The point is, whatever the hammer and sickle may have symbolized at one time (though totalitarianism is a necessary outcome of any state communism), what was done under its banner was the largest mass murder in all of history.

You may wish it weren't so. You may wish the hammer and sickle were not associated with such things, or that the banner of communism weren't.

But it was. And much like the Hindus who might like to have the swastika back free and clear, it just ain't gonna happen.

But even that's not a good analogy, because the swastika didn't symbolize anything Nazi until the Nazis co-opted it and made it famous. But the Communists were following what WAS symbolized by the hammer and sickle and carried it out to its inevitable end.

Because after all, even in the best of situations, communism only works if everyone's on board. But in a large population, that's impossible, so you have to deal with dissenters. From there, it's a very short leap to repression and totalitarianism.

And that's why they all did it. It should not be surprising that mass murder followed.
 
The point is, whatever the hammer and sickle may have symbolized at one time (though totalitarianism is a necessary outcome of any state communism), what was done under its banner was the largest mass murder in all of history.

You may wish it weren't so. You may wish the hammer and sickle were not associated with such things, or that the banner of communism weren't.

But it was. And much like the Hindus who might like to have the swastika back free and clear, it just ain't gonna happen.

But even that's not a good analogy, because the swastika didn't symbolize anything Nazi until the Nazis co-opted it and made it famous. But the Communists were following what WAS symbolized by the hammer and sickle and carried it out to its inevitable end.

Because after all, even in the best of situations, communism only works if everyone's on board. But in a large population, that's impossible, so you have to deal with dissenters. From there, it's a very short leap to repression and totalitarianism.

And that's why they all did it. It should not be surprising that mass murder followed.
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I'll take this rant as your concession, as I have systematically dismantled every single assertion you have presented and this is all you can respond with.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
I'll take this rant as your concession, as I have systematically dismantled every single assertion you have presented and this is all you can respond with.
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It is not a rant, and you have not -- considering the overarching theme of my posts is that the Communist Party is by at least an order of magnitude the biggest mass-murderer in history.

All you've said in repsonse to that is "I'm not a Stalinist" and "how many people has capitalism killed?"
 
It is not a rant
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Of course it is; that is about all you have offered up over the past three pages aside from your weak attempt at painting Trotsky as some kind of authoritarian. I've offered plenty of evidence to support every single claim that I have made.

considering the overarching theme of my posts is that the Communist Party
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There is no such thing as "the Communist Party". You cannot lump every single "Communist Party" into one category. Not only is that completely contrary to a fundamental understanding of history, but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. "The Communist Party" is a term that only has meaning to you.

is by at least an order of magnitude the biggest mass-murderer in history.
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So who is "the Communist Party" then?

All you've said in repsonse to that is "I'm not a Stalinist" and "how many people has capitalism killed?"
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No, I've said quite more than that in this thread. Perhaps you didn't respond to my posts because you didn't read them, then, but I have a hunch that you did read them and either didn't understand them for whatever reason or are just being dishonest.

I've responded to every single point you made with evidence showing that your claims are ridiculous, and every single time you have retreated, neglecting to respond to any of my posts. You then claim that I didn't address your assertion that "the Communist Party is the biggest mass-murderer in history" when I have already shown that "the Communist Party" as a generalization only exists in your mind and makes no sense to anyone with a shred of common sense.
 
Khayembii Communique said:
Of course it is; that is about all you have offered up over the past three pages aside from your weak attempt at painting Trotsky as some kind of authoritarian. I've offered plenty of evidence to support every single claim that I have made.
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No, Trotsky was a distraction that YOU brought up. You keep trying to limit what I say to things you can easily shoot down (such that it is), but that's not what I was saying.


There is no such thing as "the Communist Party". You cannot lump every single "Communist Party" into one category. Not only is that completely contrary to a fundamental understanding of history, but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. "The Communist Party" is a term that only has meaning to you.
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Funny; people have no problems linking the Nazi Parties of . . . well, anywhere. The fiction is that these Communist groups can't be linked. That's idiotic, moronic, and mostly apologist fodder.


So who is "the Communist Party" then?
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Those parties who call themselves such and subscribe to its ideology, methodology, and symbolism.



No, I've said quite more than that in this thread. Perhaps you didn't respond to my posts because you didn't read them, then, but I have a hunch that you did read them and either didn't understand them for whatever reason or are just being dishonest.

I've responded to every single point you made with evidence showing that your claims are ridiculous, and every single time you have retreated, neglecting to respond to any of my posts. You then claim that I didn't address your assertion that "the Communist Party is the biggest mass-murderer in history" when I have already shown that "the Communist Party" as a generalization only exists in your mind and makes no sense to anyone with a shred of common sense.
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No, I gave it all the same weight and consideration I would give to anyone explaining why the Nazis were actually misunderstood, unjustly-maligned, decent chaps, at least in the early days, and that they only adhere to the "good" aspects of Nazism. After all, at first, the Nazis only did what needed to be done to perfect their revolution, and they did it for the good of Germany. Or so a similar argument would go.
 
No, Trotsky was a distraction that YOU brought up.
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I never brought up Trotsky. I stated that I am a Trotskyist to explain my political affiliations, which apparently didn't have any affect on you, as you continue to claim that I "support mass murderers" (yet you have yet to prove it, so it remains ad hominem).

And if that wasn't your point in providing those quotes, what was?

You keep trying to limit what I say to things you can easily shoot down (such that it is), but that's not what I was saying.
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I am not limiting anything; I am responding to your specific points. I have not responded to your "generalized" points because they make no sense. I cannot respond to the argument that "the Communist Party is a mass murderer" because you use the term as a monolithic entity which doesn't exist outside of your brain.

Funny; people have no problems linking the Nazi Parties of . . . well, anywhere.
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That's because, as I've already said, there are not significant political variations of Nazism. Communism contains many different politico-ideological beliefs from anarcho-communism and left-communism to Juche and Stalinism. It makes absolutely no sense to lump all of these different ideologies together. But you wouldn't understand that because you probably don't know anything about communism.

The fiction is that these Communist groups can't be linked.
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I never said that they can't be linked. I said that they can't be lumped into one category as you have done, which is "idiotic, moronic, and mostly ignorant fodder."

But I'm interested. What do you think of left-communism? Do you think that left-communists are mass murderers? If so, then where was this mass murder committed? If not, then how can you claim that all communists are mass murderers while claiming that left-communists are not?

Those parties who call themselves such and subscribe to its ideology, methodology, and symbolism.
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In order to support your assertion that "the Communist Party is the biggest mass murderer in history" you would then have to prove that every single party that fits this definition (they call themselves such, and subscribe to its ideology, methodology and symbolism) have participated in mass murder. We both know you can't do that.

But let's further qualify this. What is "its ideology, methodology and symbolism"?

No, I gave it all the same weight and consideration I would give to anyone explaining why the Nazis were actually misunderstood, unjustly-maligned, decent chaps, at least in the early days, and that they only adhere to the "good" aspects of Nazism.
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I've already shown why comparisons of communism with Nazism make no sense. That was another one of our discussions from which you retreated.
 
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