• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

Moderator's Warning:
Suggestion, folks. Knock off the personal attacks and stay on topic.
 
What if Iran used their nuclear weapons to attack Israel, as they have virtually promised they would?
Then WillR will blame Israel, and argue that Israel had no right to respond in like and kind.
 
Vader, you should know by now that I don't respond to your posts anymore, as you always end up trolling regardless of what I say, so it's a waste of your time to respond to mine.

Just a heads up.

You call it trolling --

Most people here see it as me calling you and your outrageous pro-terrorist rhetoric.
 
Iran has just as much right to develop nuclear weapons as Pakistan, North Korea, or Israel. Iran should be an ally of the West, not an enemy. They are an ancient civilization, much more stable and reliable than Pakistan. To destroy the reactors they have worked on for so long would only create terrorists.

WRONG!!!!

Iran has NO RIGHT to nuclear weapons. Iran threatend to wipe Israel of the map. Moreover, Iran is the worlds LEADING STATE SPONSOR of terrorism.

Iran is an unstable Islamic theocracy run by a collection of Islam-o-facist, baby raping, child-killing zealot assbags.

You REALLY REALLY need to wake the **** up.
 
Iran has just as much right to develop nuclear weapons as Pakistan, North Korea, or Israel.
Funny, how you have no problem with Iran having free access to nukes, but take issue with law-abiding Amercians havng free access to guns.
 
Last edited:
No, not really. You are implying that Iran, which is run by rational folks who run costs vs benefit economic analysis would do what no other country on the face of the planet has ever done: give up control of weapons of mass destruction. That Iran will completely forsake all rational thought it has shown over the course of thirty years, despite having intelligent people in its military to do what no rational regime has ever done.

Furthermore, you also imply that a regime that has gone to extreme measures to stay in power and never, ever, ever risking their own lives will suddenly change and sacrifice their own necks and their own statuses to eliminate less than half of all Jews despite 20,000+ Jews in Iran.

And then you imply that Iran will do it DESPITE knowing that they will be murdering at least a million Palestinians, vaporize a key holy site of Islam, and turn Islam against their goals retarding if not completely blocking their end results.

1.) Iran is NOT run by RATIONAL people!!!! Who told you those lies?

2.) Iran is governed by a blood-thirsty islam-o-facist theocracy that has no problem funneling weapons through Syria to its terrorist proxies in Lebanon and Palestine. IF THEY WILL SEND CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS TO THEIR BUDDIES YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS THEY WILL SEND LOW YEILD NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO THEIR BUDDIES IN PALESTINE AND LEBANON.

3.) You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the politics of the middle east. You are SERIOUS deluded if you think the government of Iran can be trusted with anything more powerful than a sling-shot.

4.) The number of jews in Iran is irrelevant. We're not discussing Iranian jews and you need to stop attempting to hijack this thread.
 
Low Enriched Uranium is not weapons-grade and cannot be used in a nuclear weapon. Further enrichment is required, which requires considerably more effort and is much more noticeable. Based on this fact, and the fact that the IAEA is fully aware of every aspect of Iran's nuclear program and monitors everything, it is simply more supportive of the fact that Iran has no nuclear weapons program.
You're dead wrong. It is much easier and faster to enrich LEU uranium than beginning at step one with raw reactor by-products.

You also completely bounce over the IAEA admission that it has no clue as to where any Iranian enrichment centrifuges are being manufactured, how many units have been manufactured thus far, or how the units are being utilized. The IAEA also states that it is not allowed to inspect and monitor the heavy-water reactor at Arak.

In other words, the IAEA now admits that it has lost control and cannot verify what Iran is doing.
 
Tashah, did you see the linked report?
 
Muslims nuking Muslims is completely unheard of. It took us huge amounts of effort to get Syria in on the Desert storm. Thinking that a Muslim nation will without thought nuke what amounts to another Muslim nation (fallout anyone?) is rather short sighted. Iran likes to say it is the protector of Islam. Deliberately murdering a million fellow Muslims not to mention millions more from fallout and decimating their chances to return to their land does nothing to help Iran's cause.
Arabness/Islam didn't stop Nasser from gassing arabs/muslims in Yemen. Arabness/Islam didn't stop Jordan from massacring arab/muslim Palestinians. What makes you so sure Iran is SO different? Islam is but a facade for Iran's goals. Its a rallying cry for the ignorant. When the Palestinians are no longer of political use they will be discarded by the Iranians.
 
1.) Iran is NOT run by RATIONAL people!!!! Who told you those lies?

Celtic lord failed to answer this question, so I'll ask it of you. How many crazy people run cost vs benefit economic analysis for development projects?

2.) Iran is governed by a blood-thirsty islam-o-facist theocracy that has no problem funneling weapons through Syria to its terrorist proxies in Lebanon and Palestine. IF THEY WILL SEND CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS TO THEIR BUDDIES YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS THEY WILL SEND LOW YEILD NUCLEAR WEAPONS TO THEIR BUDDIES IN PALESTINE AND LEBANON.

One has to wonder if you're joking. Furthermore, sending shaped charges is very different then sending a nuclear weapon. Not all weapons are the same. Furthermore, in previous threads I asked you why Iran never gives terrorists its top line weapons. You never replied to that. What makes you think that Iran will suddenly give the pinnacle of its arsenal to people it cannot control when it won't even give them advanced weapons? Hell, Qud soldiers have been caught supervising terrorists using mundane weapons. The idea that Iran will let go of control is something completely unprecedented. Furthermore, as asked before and as you ignored again, if they were so bloody thirsty, why are there still Jews in Iran? Most likely, you'll ignore that question as you did in the past because it's easier to pretend it doesn't exist then actually examine your beliefs. In many ways, you're a literal creationist. Stick to what you believe reject all that seems different.

3.) You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the politics of the middle east. You are SERIOUS deluded if you think the government of Iran can be trusted with anything more powerful than a sling-shot.

Ah, another of Vader's "You're wrong because I say so, never mind I have nothing to support my arguments."

Try again. If you can.

4.) The number of jews in Iran is irrelevant. We're not discussing Iranian jews and you need to stop attempting to hijack this thread.

Actually it is relevant to the issue. You just, as in the past, wish to pretend it does not exist because it throws a monkey wrench the size of the Sun into your argument.
 
In other words, the IAEA now admits that it has lost control and cannot verify what Iran is doing.

Wouldn't be the first time. Nor the last. Frankly, at this point, no one can be trusted especially after South Korea's small sample infraction. If a country like South Korea could get away with that for years, who knows what else is going on.
 
Arabness/Islam didn't stop Nasser from gassing arabs/muslims in Yemen. Arabness/Islam didn't stop Jordan from massacring arab/muslim Palestinians.

Except as noted before, you ignored a key argument I made to suit your argument. I specifically noted and you specifically ignored, how Iran gains credibility from its alleged protector of Islam and of the Palestinians. The two examples you cited were of somewhat secular Arabs killing those who were rising up against them. Those are very much different from Iran who would be killing those it constantly claims to be helping not to mention use as a moral club against Israel. No nation on Earth deliberately destroys something that gives it legitimacy. Do you really think Iran would murder those it uses as a reason why Israel is evil?

What makes you so sure Iran is SO different? Islam is but a facade for Iran's goals. Its a rallying cry for the ignorant. When the Palestinians are no longer of political use they will be discarded by the Iranians.

Iran, unlike Yemen and Jordan, isn't facing an uprising or at least a rejection of state power. While you are correct that Arab leaders in the past have massacred fellow Arabs and Muslims, they only do so because they pose a threat to the state's power. This is clearly not the case with Iran.

Perhaps you are right when they are of no political use they will be discarded, but that time is not now and murdering a millions of them will set back Iran's goals and completely remove any support from them from the rest of the world.
 
And Iran's air defenses are far superior than Iraq's was. Actually making into Iranian air space, deep into their air space, avoiding interceptors and SAMs and then delivering sufficiently large weapons to to underground facilities to stop them is fantasy land.

You have proof of this?
 
Except as noted before, you ignored a key argument I made to suit your argument. I specifically noted and you specifically ignored, how Iran gains credibility from its alleged protector of Islam and of the Palestinians. The two examples you cited were of somewhat secular Arabs killing those who were rising up against them. Those are very much different from Iran who would be killing those it constantly claims to be helping not to mention use as a moral club against Israel. No nation on Earth deliberately destroys something that gives it legitimacy. Do you really think Iran would murder those it uses as a reason why Israel is evil?
Obviously Iran or any other country would not do such a thing unless it had reason to. I find it highly unlikely that Iran would target Palestinians for any reason in the foreseeable future. I also find it highly unlikely Iran will nuke Israel unprovoked. But, in the extremely unlikely chance that they do a first strike I'm sure the "sacrifice" of Muslims who were killed in the collateral damage could be spun in some manner.

Personally I think Iran is merely positioning itself to quickly create nuclear weapons if the international community displays an attitude of indifference or if Iran can feel it can justify such a move due to "Western/Israeli/etc aggression" or some other issue. After all, as Korea has shown the nuclear deterrent is a free pass to concessions and respect from a impotent UN and international community.

Iran, unlike Yemen and Jordan, isn't facing an uprising or at least a rejection of state power. While you are correct that Arab leaders in the past have massacred fellow Arabs and Muslims, they only do so because they pose a threat to the state's power. This is clearly not the case with Iran.
Its got NOTHING to do with uprisings. Its merely that Arabism and Islam are not a binding force in the MidEast against anything but Infidels and Crusaders.

Perhaps you are right when they are of no political use they will be discarded, but that time is not now and murdering a millions of them will set back Iran's goals and completely remove any support from them from the rest of the world.
My point wasn't that Iran would do it. My point was that Islamic unity is a facade. Not to say that its inconsequential but its simply not some ubiquitous binding force in the Islamic world as history has clearly shown.
 
Last edited:
You have proof of this?

Are you kidding?

America and Russia probably have the best anti-air defense systems in the world. Who is Russia's leading buyer of surface-to-air missiles and other anti-aircraft systems? Iran. Especially in the past decade, we've seen very close relations with Iran and Russia.
 
You have proof of this?

Care to look at what Iraq had back in the 80s compared to what Iran has now?

Iran has spent millions on air defenses that move well beyond Iraq's pathetic AAA batteries and old SAM sites.

Their mere air force is well beyond anything Israel faced during its attack on Osirak.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Air_Force]Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 
Obviously Iran or any other country would not do such a thing unless it had reason to. I find it highly unlikely that Iran would target Palestinians for any reason in the foreseeable future. I also find it highly unlikely Iran will nuke Israel unprovoked.

And I agree with both of those positions.

But, in the extremely unlikely chance that they do a first strike I'm sure the "sacrifice" of Muslims who were killed in the collateral damage could be spun in some manner.

No question there.

Personally I think Iran is merely positioning itself to quickly create nuclear weapons if the international community displays an attitude of indifference or if Iran can feel it can justify such a move due to "Western/Israeli/etc aggression" or some other issue. After all, as Korea has shown the nuclear deterrent is a free pass to concessions and respect from a impotent UN and international community.

Again, no disagreement. Iran isn't building a weapon to use it in war. It's building it for largely political reasons.

Its got NOTHING to do with uprisings.

Your two examples were examples of when Arabs killed each other because of uprisings. Generally they don't do that unless they face a threat to their regime. Again, not the case with Iran.

Its merely that Arabism and Islam are not a binding force in the MidEast against anything but Infidels and Crusaders.

I'd agree with that. However, you miss the point that killing a million Palestinians unprovoked essentially destroys any support Iran would have within the Islamic world. Iran is working hard NOT to get isolated from the world and the rest of the Middle East. Hell, they've allied with a Secular Syria who has a long history of brutally eliminating fundamentalists, the same kind of people within Iran's government. In a strange way, it's similar to Germany of WWI. Turning large populations of Muslims against them is not helping their long term goals.

My point wasn't that Iran would do it. My point was that Islamic unity is a facade. Not to say that its inconsequential but its simply not some ubiquitous binding force in the Islamic world as history has clearly shown.

To a degree yes. But in this context, we're not moving past the basic unity rational. While the Facade may be just a facade, Iran frankly doesn't have much else.
 
America and Russia probably have the best anti-air defense systems in the world. Who is Russia's leading buyer of surface-to-air missiles and other anti-aircraft systems? Iran. Especially in the past decade, we've seen very close relations with Iran and Russia.
The Syrian nuclear facility was also "protected" by sophisticated Russian air defense weaponry. The IAF went right through it like a hot knife through butter. Except for possibly the US, no air force has better ECM than the IAF.
 
Care to look at what Iraq had back in the 80s compared to what Iran has now?
My sources say that the US (NSA) has been successfully hacking into the Iranian nuclear program computers since early 2007. This information remains classified and was not included or alluded to in any NIE concerning Iran. Bush and now Obama are indeed aware of the particulars.
 
Are you kidding?

America and Russia probably have the best anti-air defense systems in the world. Who is Russia's leading buyer of surface-to-air missiles and other anti-aircraft systems? Iran. Especially in the past decade, we've seen very close relations with Iran and Russia.

The Iranians lack a fully integrated and comprehensive air-defense system. The fact that they purchase their SAM systems from Russia says nothing of about the capabilities of those systems. Their air-defense system is vulnerable to advanced electronic counter-measures (which Israel has in spades) and fighter-jets with small radar cross-sections and high maneuverability (Israel has these as well).

The Iranian air-defense doctrine is one of point-defense and deterrence. The mainstay of the Iranian SAM system is the Russian SA-5; hardly on the cutting edge. The SA-5 system lacks a low-altitude radar system, as does the Iranian air-defense as a whole which, as previously stated, makes them vulnerable to small RCS fighter jets with high maneuverability, not to mention decoy saturation. Furthermore, the Iranian air-defense system is severely constrained by the surrounding terrain. These mountainous regions provide an easily exploitable blind spot for advanced and determined enemies.

The bottom line? The Iranian air-defense system presents numerous challenges but is hardly the impregnable missile labyrinth you and Obvious Child make it out to be. Please do some research before you make an authoritative statement on a complex subject.
 
Back
Top Bottom