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Thread: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    You have proof of this?
    Care to look at what Iraq had back in the 80s compared to what Iran has now?

    Iran has spent millions on air defenses that move well beyond Iraq's pathetic AAA batteries and old SAM sites.

    Their mere air force is well beyond anything Israel faced during its attack on Osirak.

    [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_Air_Force]Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by scourge99 View Post
    Obviously Iran or any other country would not do such a thing unless it had reason to. I find it highly unlikely that Iran would target Palestinians for any reason in the foreseeable future. I also find it highly unlikely Iran will nuke Israel unprovoked.
    And I agree with both of those positions.

    But, in the extremely unlikely chance that they do a first strike I'm sure the "sacrifice" of Muslims who were killed in the collateral damage could be spun in some manner.
    No question there.

    Personally I think Iran is merely positioning itself to quickly create nuclear weapons if the international community displays an attitude of indifference or if Iran can feel it can justify such a move due to "Western/Israeli/etc aggression" or some other issue. After all, as Korea has shown the nuclear deterrent is a free pass to concessions and respect from a impotent UN and international community.
    Again, no disagreement. Iran isn't building a weapon to use it in war. It's building it for largely political reasons.

    Its got NOTHING to do with uprisings.
    Your two examples were examples of when Arabs killed each other because of uprisings. Generally they don't do that unless they face a threat to their regime. Again, not the case with Iran.

    Its merely that Arabism and Islam are not a binding force in the MidEast against anything but Infidels and Crusaders.
    I'd agree with that. However, you miss the point that killing a million Palestinians unprovoked essentially destroys any support Iran would have within the Islamic world. Iran is working hard NOT to get isolated from the world and the rest of the Middle East. Hell, they've allied with a Secular Syria who has a long history of brutally eliminating fundamentalists, the same kind of people within Iran's government. In a strange way, it's similar to Germany of WWI. Turning large populations of Muslims against them is not helping their long term goals.

    My point wasn't that Iran would do it. My point was that Islamic unity is a facade. Not to say that its inconsequential but its simply not some ubiquitous binding force in the Islamic world as history has clearly shown.
    To a degree yes. But in this context, we're not moving past the basic unity rational. While the Facade may be just a facade, Iran frankly doesn't have much else.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    America and Russia probably have the best anti-air defense systems in the world. Who is Russia's leading buyer of surface-to-air missiles and other anti-aircraft systems? Iran. Especially in the past decade, we've seen very close relations with Iran and Russia.
    The Syrian nuclear facility was also "protected" by sophisticated Russian air defense weaponry. The IAF went right through it like a hot knife through butter. Except for possibly the US, no air force has better ECM than the IAF.

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Care to look at what Iraq had back in the 80s compared to what Iran has now?
    My sources say that the US (NSA) has been successfully hacking into the Iranian nuclear program computers since early 2007. This information remains classified and was not included or alluded to in any NIE concerning Iran. Bush and now Obama are indeed aware of the particulars.

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Are you kidding?

    America and Russia probably have the best anti-air defense systems in the world. Who is Russia's leading buyer of surface-to-air missiles and other anti-aircraft systems? Iran. Especially in the past decade, we've seen very close relations with Iran and Russia.
    The Iranians lack a fully integrated and comprehensive air-defense system. The fact that they purchase their SAM systems from Russia says nothing of about the capabilities of those systems. Their air-defense system is vulnerable to advanced electronic counter-measures (which Israel has in spades) and fighter-jets with small radar cross-sections and high maneuverability (Israel has these as well).

    The Iranian air-defense doctrine is one of point-defense and deterrence. The mainstay of the Iranian SAM system is the Russian SA-5; hardly on the cutting edge. The SA-5 system lacks a low-altitude radar system, as does the Iranian air-defense as a whole which, as previously stated, makes them vulnerable to small RCS fighter jets with high maneuverability, not to mention decoy saturation. Furthermore, the Iranian air-defense system is severely constrained by the surrounding terrain. These mountainous regions provide an easily exploitable blind spot for advanced and determined enemies.

    The bottom line? The Iranian air-defense system presents numerous challenges but is hardly the impregnable missile labyrinth you and Obvious Child make it out to be. Please do some research before you make an authoritative statement on a complex subject.

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The Iranians lack a fully integrated and comprehensive air-defense system. The fact that they purchase their SAM systems from Russia says nothing of about the capabilities of those systems. Their air-defense system is vulnerable to advanced electronic counter-measures (which Israel has in spades) and fighter-jets with small radar cross-sections and high maneuverability (Israel has these as well).

    The Iranian air-defense doctrine is one of point-defense and deterrence. The mainstay of the Iranian SAM system is the Russian SA-5; hardly on the cutting edge. The SA-5 system lacks a low-altitude radar system, as does the Iranian air-defense as a whole which, as previously stated, makes them vulnerable to small RCS fighter jets with high maneuverability, not to mention decoy saturation. Furthermore, the Iranian air-defense system is severely constrained by the surrounding terrain. These mountainous regions provide an easily exploitable blind spot for advanced and determined enemies.

    The bottom line? The Iranian air-defense system presents numerous challenges but is hardly the impregnable missile labyrinth you and Obvious Child make it out to be. Please do some research before you make an authoritative statement on a complex subject.
    It's hardly being authoritative, just realistic.

    A preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities is not realistic. All it is politics with the far right in Israel rallying up about there new coalition government.

    Not to mention that without a go-head from Washington to fly over Iraq, none of this is even feasible.

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    It's hardly being authoritative, just realistic.

    A preemptive strike on Iran's nuclear facilities is not realistic. All it is politics with the far right in Israel rallying up about there new coalition government.

    Not to mention that without a go-head from Washington to fly over Iraq, none of this is even feasible.
    I see you did not contest the specifics of my argument except to say that you disagree with my conclusion.
    Last edited by Ethereal; 04-21-09 at 09:48 PM.

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    WRONG!!!!

    Iran has NO RIGHT to nuclear weapons. Iran threatend to wipe Israel of the map. Moreover, Iran is the worlds LEADING STATE SPONSOR of terrorism.

    Iran is an unstable Islamic theocracy run by a collection of Islam-o-facist, baby raping, child-killing zealot assbags.

    You REALLY REALLY need to wake the **** up.
    Very well put!

  9. #79
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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Tashah View Post
    My sources say that the US (NSA) has been successfully hacking into the Iranian nuclear program computers since early 2007. This information remains classified and was not included or alluded to in any NIE concerning Iran. Bush and now Obama are indeed aware of the particulars.
    Probably. But Iran does have a much more capable air force and air defense network then Iraq did back in the 80s. I really don't see how Israel can pull this off without nuclear strikes from its Dolphins.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Israel stands ready to bomb Iran's nuclear sites

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    The Iranians lack a fully integrated and comprehensive air-defense system. The fact that they purchase their SAM systems from Russia says nothing of about the capabilities of those systems. Their air-defense system is vulnerable to advanced electronic counter-measures (which Israel has in spades) and fighter-jets with small radar cross-sections and high maneuverability (Israel has these as well).
    While that is true, what your argument has failed to incorporate is the terrain. First of all, high maneuverability is sacrificed when a fighter bomber is carrying an extremely heavy load, the type needed to destroy Iran's hardened nuclear facilities. Alternatively, Israel would provide escorts. However, given the number of Iran's facilities as well as their geographic spread across the country, Israel simply lacks the necessary air assets to do the job, again why I first noted, the article is suspect as it does not account for the circumstances. While Israel is indeed superior in the air, couple the long range issue with numerous Iran targets and the necessary weapons load, and the IAF just ran into a rather large problem. Israel has generally utilized its high maneuverability in defending Israel rather than launching long range attacks. Israel's attack on Egypt didn't have the range or the necessary weapons load problem that it has with Iran.

    The bottom line? The Iranian air-defense system presents numerous challenges but is hardly the impregnable missile labyrinth you and Obvious Child make it out to be. Please do some research before you make an authoritative statement on a complex subject.
    No one argued it was impregnable. You made that up. Interestingly enough, your hubris has essentially shot you in the foot. What you have described, specifically the vulnerabilities of Iran's defense network is not going to be the situation in an air assault by Israel. Fighter bombers loaded down with abnormally large weapons loads lose large amounts of maneuverability. Ask any fighter jock about how they feel about bombing a target when their plane's weapons load triples from its normal setup. They don't like it. The US and other nations generally get around this by simply upping the air assets. Israel does not have that luxury.

    Essentially what you propose is that Israel will launch an attack with relatively few air assets, carrying abnormally large weapons loads which staggeringly reduces their capacity to maneuver and dogfight, across vast distances relying heavily upon tankers, violate Jordanian and Iraqi airspace unchallenged, and then proceed to attack Iran's hardened facilities which are located on the opposite side of the country against an air force much more competent than 1980's Iraq that is armed with large amounts of SAMS and then fly back through it all.

    Really. And you accuse us of not thinking it out.

    Please do some research before you make an authoritative statement on a complex subject.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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