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Brown University Should Consider Name Change Due to Slave Ties, Critics Say

don'ttreadonme said:
How is it out of line? I think he's insinuating that people who use the term "Indians" are as racist as people who use the term "nigger."
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I didn't get that from it.

I mean I still use the term "Indian" for native Americans and have never really had a problem. Take into account I am near the Seminole reservation and play paint ball on the same reservation with no problem.

The term "nigger" is a specifically derogatory term. The term "Indian" is not, even if it is considered wrong.
 
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Blackdog said:
I didn't get that from it.

The term "nigger" is a specifically derogatory term. The term "Indian" is not, even if it is considered wrong.
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That's what I'm saying, too. lol
 
Columbus was looking for India when he struck North America, which is why he called them Indians. Now that we have modern education, knowledge of basic geography and history, it's pretty simple to call them what they are: Native Americans. If you want to cling to the word "Indian", then it just makes you willingly ignorant... and yes, this includes Native Americans who call themselves Indians, because that is not accurate either. Most Native Americans know which First Nation they came from and will call themselves by that name accordingly.

As for the school's name... changing the name won't change its history. It's just a bunch of PC garbage. To me this is an attempt at sweeping history under the rug, since if it doesn't go by that name anymore, then no one will google who the person was and his involvement in the slave trade. It's better to have open dialogue and admit the school's history... there are other ways to amend the past.
 
Orius said:
Columbus was looking for India when he struck North America, which is why he called them Indians. Now that we have modern education, knowledge of basic geography and history, it's pretty simple to call them what they are: Native Americans. If you want to cling to the word "Indian", then it just makes you willingly ignorant... and yes, this includes Native Americans who call themselves Indians, because that is not accurate either. Most Native Americans know which First Nation they came from and will call themselves by that name accordingly.

As for the school's name... changing the name won't change its history. It's just a bunch of PC garbage. To me this is an attempt at sweeping history under the rug, since if it doesn't go by that name anymore, then no one will google who the person was and his involvement in the slave trade. It's better to have open dialogue and admit the school's history... there are other ways to amend the past.
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Interesting.

Calling someone "Indian" is willfully ignorant, but changing the schools name is PC?

According to the dictionary you are just a little off base....

In⋅di⋅an   /ˈɪndiən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-dee-uhn] Show IPA
–noun 1. Also called American Indian, Amerind, Amerindian, Native American. a member of the aboriginal people of America or of any of the aboriginal North or South American stocks, usually excluding the Eskimos.
2. any of the indigenous languages of the American Indians. Abbreviation: Ind
3. a member of any of the peoples native to or inhabiting India or the East Indies.
4. a citizen of the Republic of India.
5. Slang. a person who performs a required task or carries out the instructions of superiors: We have too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
6. Astronomy. the constellation Indus.


Looks like the willfully ignorant are in good company. :cool:
 
Orius said:
Columbus was looking for India when he struck North America, which is why he called them Indians. Now that we have modern education, knowledge of basic geography and history, it's pretty simple to call them what they are: Native Americans. If you want to cling to the word "Indian", then it just makes you willingly ignorant... and yes, this includes Native Americans who call themselves Indians, because that is not accurate either. Most Native Americans know which First Nation they came from and will call themselves by that name accordingly.

As for the school's name... changing the name won't change its history. It's just a bunch of PC garbage. To me this is an attempt at sweeping history under the rug, since if it doesn't go by that name anymore, then no one will google who the person was and his involvement in the slave trade. It's better to have open dialogue and admit the school's history... there are other ways to amend the past.
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I agree with the second bit. It is just PC idiocy. So there are some negatives evoked by the name, that is no reason to erase it completely because some do-gooders are pissed off.

I don't think it particularly matters what you call native Americans, it is hardly a good deal if some want to call them Indians. After all Indians didn't refer to themselves as Indians and most don't come from around the Indus valley.
 
independent_thinker2002 said:
Let's play nice. Cherokee wasn't making this about him. He was illustrating how people can be offended by things.
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Yes but there are people who are professionally offended, the PC brigade, that doesn't mean we should necessarily care that some are offended, it depends on the situation.
 
cherokee said:
I don't think I ever said I did but I do speak for my family and my Native friends.
Did you know some old blacks don't mind being called negro, isnt that short for nigger?

But hell you said it yourself you cant please everyone......:roll:
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Are you ****ing kidding? "Nigger" is derived from the word "negro," not vice versa and comparing the word "Indian" to "nigger" is pretty ridiculous. Not to mention they're both two syllable words, so in speech one is not shorter than the other. Also, Native American is also a misnomer since the INDIANS came from Asia.
 
A slave holder named John McDonough built just about all of the public schools in New Orleans with his will. They're all named McDonough No. 6, McDonough No 4 etc.

Some of them have had the name changed.
 
StandUpChuck said:
Since you're making proclamations for them and not you, let me tell you as one of them, Indian is just fine. My grandmother was proud to be Indian. She could have given a hoot about India. Sorry you don't like it.
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I am making proclamations for them as one of them. My grandmother is 100% Kiowa. We are not from India and have never been from India.

StandUpChuck said:
eta: I'm also a New Englander. NE isn't part of England, but we're not scrapping the name because of someone has too much time on their hands to look to be offended.
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Would you find it ok if people called you Canadian since your from New England? It's close enough right?
 
Blackdog said:
Interesting.

Calling someone "Indian" is willfully ignorant, but changing the schools name is PC?

According to the dictionary you are just a little off base....

In⋅di⋅an   /ˈɪndiən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-dee-uhn] Show IPA
–noun 1. Also called American Indian, Amerind, Amerindian, Native American. a member of the aboriginal people of America or of any of the aboriginal North or South American stocks, usually excluding the Eskimos.
2. any of the indigenous languages of the American Indians. Abbreviation: Ind
3. a member of any of the peoples native to or inhabiting India or the East Indies.
4. a citizen of the Republic of India.
5. Slang. a person who performs a required task or carries out the instructions of superiors: We have too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
6. Astronomy. the constellation Indus.


Looks like the willfully ignorant are in good company. :cool:
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The fact that that entry refers to the Inuit as Eskimos (a racist name invented by the British) and refers to India as the East Indes (implying that there is a West Indes, which again results from the fallacy of thinking those in the Carribbean were "Indians" when Columbus arrived), demonstrates that collective knowledge has not been updated to coincide with the times.

As someone who did some Native Studies in university, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

Next time try forming your own argument instead of copying and pasting somewhere else's misinformation. kthnx ;)
 
The gist of the OP is if the students and certain faculty at Brown can change the name of Columbus Day because of Columbus' treatment of the inhabitants he encountered upon arrival, then Brown should be renamed because they, the Brown family participated in slavery.

Orius said:
As someone who did some Native Studies in university, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.
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Nice argument.:doh

I studied the logo on an Indian motorcycle once, and it looked just like the Indian on my Big Chief writing tablet in kindrgarten. :shock:

We can play the name game all day. Who exactly has the absolute authority to assign names for the various races/ethnic groups on the planet from the beginning of time?

I have to admit though, the name game discussion has been interesting.

Carry on.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2HBFdO7W0Q&feature=related"]YouTube - Shirley Ellis - Name Game[/ame]
 
Gibberish said:
I am making proclamations for them as one of them. My grandmother is 100% Kiowa. We are not from India and have never been from India.
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Then why ON EARTH do you refer to your own people as "them?" If you're going to get all hung up on words, why didn't you own up to your heritage with a simple "we?" :(
 
Some of you understand it, other don't so say whatever you want.
PC non PC I don't give a ****. When someone calls me Indian its NO different then someone saying nigger, wetback spick, zip, gook or wop.
People have the right to say whatever and I have the right to knock their ass out.

Next Who the **** are you to get offended at what pisses me off?
 
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don'ttreadonme said:
You're the one who seems to get some kind of charge out of typing the n-word, dude.
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Oh man it just turns me on you know.....
I have to grab a smoke after typing to 5 times...................:roll:
 
cherokee said:
Some of you understand it, other don't so say whatever you want.
PC non PC I don't give a ****. When someone calls me Indian its NO different then someone saying nigger, wetback spick, zip, gook or wop.
People have the right to say whatever and I have the right to knock their ass out.

Next Who the **** are you to get offended at what pisses me off?
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They are not the same. Indian was never meant as a derogatory term, "nigger" was/is.

I understand how you feel as I hate the term "African American" as I am not African, and I am an American.
 
Orius said:
The fact that that entry refers to the Inuit as Eskimos (a racist name invented by the British)
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Not really...

" The primary reason that Eskimo is considered derogatory is the false perception that it means "eaters of raw meat".There are two different etymologies in scientific literature for the term Eskimo. The most well-known comes from Ives Goddard at the Smithsonian Institution , who says it means "Snowshoe netters". Quebec linguist Jose Mailhot, who speaks Innu-aimun (Montagnais) (which Mailhot and Goddard agree is the language from which the word originated), published a definitive study in 1978 stating that it means "people who speak a different language"." - [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo]Eskimo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Orius said:
and refers to India as the East Indes (implying that there is a West Indes, which again results from the fallacy of thinking those in the Carribbean were "Indians" when Columbus arrived), demonstrates that collective knowledge has not been updated to coincide with the times.
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:spin:

The average person with any kind of knowledge knows the difference between the Caribbean Islands (West Indies) and the East Indies.

"East In·dies (ndz)
Indonesia. The term is sometimes used to refer to all of Southeast Asia. Historically, it referred chiefly to India. - East Indies - definition of East Indies by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Orius said:
As someone who did some Native Studies in university, I can tell you that you don't know what you're talking about.

Next time try forming your own argument instead of copying and pasting somewhere else's misinformation. kthnx ;)
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Looks like my argument is just fine and you need to study more.
 
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cherokee said:
Some of you understand it, other don't so say whatever you want.
PC non PC I don't give a ****. When someone calls me Indian its NO different then someone saying ******* edited out offensive terms ******.
People have the right to say whatever and I have the right to knock their ass out.

Next Who the **** are you to get offended at what pisses me off?
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Wow Cherokee. I misjudged you. I find nothing wrong w/Indian, but I respected your right to be called what you preferred. You obviously don't respect mine.
 
cherokee said:
People have the right to say whatever and I have the right to knock their ass out.
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This is actually incorrect. People do have the right to say whatever they want so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others. But you do not have the right to knock their ass out less your safety or life are in danger.
 
I was about to try to post something intelligent about the original topic.

I just read the last couple pages and decided it wasn't worth the effort. :rofl


G.
 
cherokee said:
Some of you understand it, other don't so say whatever you want.
PC non PC I don't give a ****. When someone calls me Indian its NO different then someone saying nigger, wetback spick, zip, gook or wop.
People have the right to say whatever and I have the right to knock their ass out.

Next Who the **** are you to get offended at what pisses me off?
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Bullcrap. Nobody says "Indian" like that. If you want the equivalent of the word "nigger" for Native Americans, it's not "Indians;" it's "Savages." Who the hell says that anymore? Nobody. I get tired of this PC bullcrap.
 
cherokee said:
Some of you understand it, other don't so say whatever you want.
PC non PC I don't give a ****. When someone calls me Indian its NO different then someone saying nigger, wetback spick, zip, gook or wop.
People have the right to say whatever and I have the right to knock their ass out.
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And then get arrested for it.

You have a right to free speech not to assault.
 
StandUpChuck said:
Then why ON EARTH do you refer to your own people as "them?" If you're going to get all hung up on words, why didn't you own up to your heritage with a simple "we?" :(
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Because my association to Native Americans shouldn't matter. My argument isn't validated or invalidated based on my heritage.
 
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