Palin stands against abortion during Ind. speech

jallman said:

What I find so fascinating is how the op-ed piece takes the tone that Palin is somehow extreme in her pro-life stance and she's just not. She's pro-life. She believes the fetus has a right to life and that to abort is murder. Lots and lots of people think like she does.

Click to expand...

I find it amazing that those of us on the side of life are considered the extremists :roll:

jallman said:

What I find so fascinating is how the op-ed piece takes the tone that Palin is somehow extreme in her pro-life stance and she's just not. She's pro-life. She believes the fetus has a right to life and that to abort is murder. Lots and lots of people think like she does.

Click to expand...

Curious, cause I honestly don't remember this off the top of my head from the campaign.

Is she for banning it in all cases, including in times when the mother's life is in danger or cases of rape/incest?

and

Is she on record of saying there should be a national ban of it or the states should decide?

jallman said:

So wait...you're going to get all twisted over 19 months in an executive position because its Palin, yet you won't acknowledge that your guy had 20 something weeks worth of experience as a junior senator?

Click to expand...

You aren't tracking what I'm saying. I admitted Obama had little to no experience at all. We were discussing Palin's qualifications, not Obama's, and I wasn't getting all twisted.

Okay, Lerxst, we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I think the whole conversation just took on an air of being ridiculous. I'm not going to sit here and play your game of hunting down the details of everything Palin did as governor while you refuse to do the same for your little community organizer.

Click to expand...

Right, so you don't want to talk about Palin, which is who the conversation was about, but you're going to stomp off because I asked you to contain the discussion the topic. You were the one defending her experience, I simply took what you provided and began examining it. But now it's about me not wanting to talk about Obama. What the ****, I wasn't the one in here defending Obama's experience and qualifications was I? Did I make that argument? No I didn't. So why are you stomping off when I don't take up that mantle? Look, as I pointed out in an earlier post, I know the guy has little to no experience, I admit that. I also admit I voted for him despite that. There you go j, that is my position. I agree with you he's a babe in the woods with no executive experience. Can we kiss and make up now?

Now, I would like to discuss Sarah Palin if we could. Since you were one of the only people in this thread who had the balls to actually step and define things about her that you felt were good qualifications, I'd appreciate a continuance of our discussion on your position.

You basically hold Palin to a different standard because she has the R after her name and nothing more. It's beyond absurd.

Click to expand...

Oh whatever, that's horse dookey and you know it. What's absurd is you suggesting that, simply because I'm not up here slamming Obama when the conversation...the thread...was about Palin. All I did was take the defense you offered up and hammer away at it. If you don't want get any deeper into what you laid out there, fine, I understand. However my criticism stands.

Look, I hold Palin's performance during the campaign against her, because that's all I have to go on. You apparently seem to think she did a bang up job, obviously I disagree. All four of those involved made horses asses of themselves at one point or another. I just chose to vote for black horse and I'm okay with that. I think he was the better choice, but not because I think he had more executive experience, or really experience of any kind, over anyone else. I just liked what he had to say and thought his direction was better for the country than McCains. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that.

I still love you.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

I find it amazing that those of us on the side of life are considered the extremists :roll:

Click to expand...

I'm sure many pro-choice liberals feel the same way when they see some of the pro-life rantings that occur. It's a hot issue, like religion. People on the left and right go too far with it in many cases if you ask me. It's not black and white to me.

Lerxst said:

I'm sure many pro-choice liberals feel the same way when they see some of the pro-life rantings that occur. It's a hot issue, like religion. People on the left and right go too far with it in many cases if you ask me. It's not black and white to me.

Click to expand...

It is to me, considering that life is precious, I side on the side of science, that there is life there.. Though I don't call pro-abortion people "extremists" just misguided. That said, there have been numerous times I have been called an extremist or an "religious extremist" over this issue, when religion has nothing to do with my position.... Maybe I should start. :mrgreen:

Truth Detector said:

Address the subject about Palin's inexperience? I definitely addressed it; your willful denial of it doesn't change the FACT.

How typical of you to rail about your "perceptions" of Palin but willingly ignore the FACT that you supported a candidate with far less experience and who is weakening this nation daily with his insane economic policies and putting the nation even more at risk from our enemies by releasing CIA memos for purely political purposes.

Carry on! :rofl

Click to expand...

Oh please, oh please Great Truth Detector, show me where, in this discussion, you have addressed Palin's inexperience. All I saw you do was divert (like many on here) away from Palin's problems, and onto another target.

It's not just a matter of how much experience a candidate has. It's a matter of the total package, the direction the candidate wants to take the country, as well as the direction the other guy wants to take the country. I have no problem standing here and saying I voted for Obama despite his lack of experience. In my opinion McCain was a much worse choice, especially with Sarah Palin at his side. Just because I voted for a guy with no experience doesn't disqualify me from talking about another persons lack of experience.
You all are jumping to her defense, I'd just like to see you actually articulate your case. Making broad comments about what a governor does means nothing in the context of this argument...what is important in this argument is what she's actually done. You see Truth Detector, it's her actual experience as governor we were discussing, not her job description as governor.

You can talk about his lack of experience all you want, I'll even help you out. He had literally NO experience. Yet here he is, doing the job. And that kills you. You don't really like what he's doing and that's fine, but some of us okay with his performance thus far, I'm giving him a C-. not bad for a guy with no executive experience. I think he'll only get better at his job as he goes along.

So, now let's see you defend Sarah Palin's experience. And by defend her experience, I mean don't talk about Obama's lack of experience. You've seen my counter to Jallman's answers, start there. Or better yet, why don't you offer up some of these facts you are talking about all the time but rarely producing?

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

It is to me, considering that life is precious, I side on the side of science, that there is life there.. Though I don't call pro-abortion people "extremists" just misguided. That said, there have been numerous times I have been called an extremist or an "religious extremist" over this issue, when religion has nothing to do with my position.... Maybe I should start. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

Well there is the difference between you and I then. I view life as precious also, but it's not my place to get involved in a woman's decision regarding abortion unless the fetus in question is mine. If one of my daughters were pregnant and considering abortion I would certainly get involved and provide my input in the matter, but in the end it would be her choice. I may not agree with the choice, but it's hers. Not mine.

There are valid reasons for abortion. It's up to the mother and the medical community to sort those issues out.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

It is to me, considering that life is precious, I side on the side of science, that there is life there.. Though I don't call pro-abortion people "extremists" just misguided. That said, there have been numerous times I have been called an extremist or an "religious extremist" over this issue, when religion has nothing to do with my position.... Maybe I should start. :mrgreen:

Click to expand...

I really hate it when people refer to pro-choice as being pro-abortion. I don't know ANYONE who is pro-abortion. :roll: If I accidentally got pregnant and was told my child would have Down Syndrome, I would STILL have the baby. That is MY MY MY MY choice.

aps said:

I really hate it when people refer to pro-choice as being pro-abortion. I don't know ANYONE who is pro-abortion. :roll: If I accidentally got pregnant and was told my child would have Down Syndrome, I would STILL have the baby. That is MY MY MY MY choice.

Click to expand...

We're pro-child murder dear, please try and keep up.

:mrgreen:

aps said:

I really hate it when people refer to pro-choice as being pro-abortion. I don't know ANYONE who is pro-abortion. :roll: If I accidentally got pregnant and was told my child would have Down Syndrome, I would STILL have the baby. That is MY MY MY MY choice.

Click to expand...

If you do want abortion to be illegal, you are in my opinion "pro-abortion". This opinion is MY MY MY choice.

Lerxst said:

Well there is the difference between you and I then. I view life as precious also, but it's not my place to get involved in a woman's decision regarding abortion unless the fetus in question is mine. If one of my daughters were pregnant and considering abortion I would certainly get involved and provide my input in the matter, but in the end it would be her choice. I may not agree with the choice, but it's hers. Not mine.

Click to expand...

The term "fetus" in my opinion is used to change the reality of the proceedure. That fetus, is a human life.

There are valid reasons for abortion. It's up to the mother and the medical community to sort those issues out.

Click to expand...

Yes, mortal danger to the mother or cases of rape within the 1st 8 weeks, though I don't like it, I will compromise there.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

If you do want abortion to be illegal, you are in my opinion "pro-abortion". This opinion is MY MY MY choice.

Click to expand...

That's not logical, but your response made me laugh.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

The term "fetus" in my opinion is used to change the reality of the proceedure. That fetus, is a human life.

Click to expand...

Fetus is a medical term, I didn't make it up, and I don't think the medical science community had a pro-abortion strategy in mind when they adopted the terminology. That kind appeal to emotion doesn't sway my position. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-it's the mothers body, it's the mothers decision to make. There is no blood on my hands should a woman decide that an abortion is necessary.

Yes, mortal danger to the mother or cases of rape within the 1st 8 weeks, though I don't like it, I will compromise there.

Click to expand...

Yes, those are valid reasons.

Lerxst said:

Fetus is a medical term, I didn't make it up, and I don't think the medical science community had a pro-abortion strategy in mind when they adopted the terminology. That kind appeal to emotion doesn't sway my position. I'm not pro-abortion. I'm pro-it's the mothers body, it's the mothers decision to make. There is no blood on my hands should a woman decide that an abortion is necessary.

Click to expand...

I agree the medical community has know strategy, I do believe however, us laymen use that term to dehumanize the "fetus".

Sort of like "overseas contingency operations" and "man-caused disasters". :lol:

Yes, those are valid reasons.

Click to expand...

To me the only ones.

aps said:

That's not logical, but your response made me laugh.

Click to expand...

I think the "pro-abortion" thing is idoitc. Technically, it is true in the general context that one is for the legality of abortion. However, its a cheap tactic used by most people that use it to insinuate that people are for abortions actually taking place in a GENERAL sense and to give the impression to the masses that these people want abortions to happen routinely, just because. Its an attempt to belittle and re-interprit the intention of most pro-choice people, which is generally not that abortion is good but that it is the choice of the woman not the government whether htey should be allowed to do it or not.

I think the same thing when people on the other side call Pro-Lifer's "anti-choice". Again, technically, it is true. They're against the ability to choose whether one has an abortion or not. However, its a general gross misinterpritation of what Pro-lifer's actually believe in order to confuse the masses into thinking that the mean pro-lifers don't want you deciding what's best for your body when in reality they believe that they fetus is a child and thus has rights and you can't infringe upon its rights.

Both Anti-Choice and Pro-Abortion are USUALLY used by people who don't actually care about legitimate honest debate or respectful discourse between two people but instead care more about smearing, attacking, and degrading the side opposite of them in all ways possible no matter the amount one must twist, distort, or mislead.

Zyphlin said:

I think the "pro-abortion" thing is idoitc. Technically, it is true in the general context that one is for the legality of abortion. However, its a cheap tactic used by most people that use it to insinuate that people are for abortions actually taking place in a GENERAL sense and to give the impression to the masses that these people want abortions to happen routinely, just because. Its an attempt to belittle and re-interprit the intention of most pro-choice people, which is generally not that abortion is good but that it is the choice of the woman not the government whether htey should be allowed to do it or not.

I think the same thing when people on the other side call Pro-Lifer's "anti-choice". Again, technically, it is true. They're against the ability to choose whether one has an abortion or not. However, its a general gross misinterpritation of what Pro-lifer's actually believe in order to confuse the masses into thinking that the mean pro-lifers don't want you deciding what's best for your body when in reality they believe that they fetus is a child and thus has rights and you can't infringe upon its rights.

Both Anti-Choice and Pro-Abortion are USUALLY used by people who don't actually care about legitimate honest debate or respectful discourse between two people but instead care more about smearing, attacking, and degrading the side opposite of them in all ways possible no matter the amount one must twist, distort, or mislead.

Click to expand...

I think argument that its a fetus not a child is more disingenuous than my opinon that if you support abortion "rights" you are pro abortion.


It's my honest opinion. I don't use "pro-abortion" because I want to be "dishonest" or "disrespectful"....


When many of these same people are "anti-choice" when it comes to the 2nd. Using a term like "pro-choice" to me is disingenuous.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

I think argument that its a fetus not a child is more disingenuous than my opinon that if you support abortion "rights" you are pro abortion.


It's my honest opinion. I don't use "pro-abortion" because I want to be "dishonest" or "disrespectful"....


When many of these same people are "anti-choice" when it comes to the 2nd. Using a term like "pro-choice" to me is disingenuous.

Click to expand...

Okay, so if I support a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her own pregnancy, but I choose to keep that fetus--how would you label me?

Zyphlin said:

Curious, cause I honestly don't remember this off the top of my head from the campaign.

Is she for banning it in all cases, including in times when the mother's life is in danger or cases of rape/incest?

and

Is she on record of saying there should be a national ban of it or the states should decide?

Click to expand...

I'm sure some quote can be lifted from somewhere (probably her church, which I think should be off limits unless the Church enters the public arena with political stumping) that could make the case for it. However, in her time as governor of Alaska, Palin has been very clear about keeping her personal beliefs out of her role as governor.

Yep, I've got no worries about her record. It was more just a general question about her stance because I honestly don't know.

The reason I ask is because someone that thinks that it should be illegal on a national scale for ANY reason AT ALL and is in favor of major legal ramifications on people who choose to do so illegally would be extreme in my mind, much like people who push for Late Term abortions being legalized and wanting large government aid to do such and advocating that younger people are actually encouraged to get abortions would be the extreme on the other side.

I think its entirely possible to be "extreme" on the issue on both sides, I just honestly don't know Palin's stances enough to know where she sits in this particular regard

Zyphlin said:

Yep, I've got no worries about her record. It was more just a general question about her stance because I honestly don't know.

The reason I ask is because someone that thinks that it should be illegal on a national scale for ANY reason AT ALL and is in favor of major legal ramifications on people who choose to do so illegally would be extreme in my mind, much like people who push for Late Term abortions being legalized and wanting large government aid to do such and advocating that younger people are actually encouraged to get abortions would be the extreme on the other side.

I think its entirely possible to be "extreme" on the issue on both sides, I just honestly don't know Palin's stances enough to know where she sits in this particular regard

Click to expand...

She did appoint a pro-choice judge to Alaska's SC.

winston53660 said:

She did appoint a pro-choice judge to Alaska's SC.

Click to expand...

My question would be "did she appoint that person just primarily because the judge was pro-choice" or because Palin felt the judge was an all around good choice?

I'm always curious about appointments like this. I'm not going to pass any judgement on her here because I don't know enough about her actual reasoning. But it's interesting info.

Lerxst said:

My question would be "did she appoint that person just primarily because the judge was pro-choice" or because Palin felt the judge was an all around good choice?

I'm always curious about appointments like this. I'm not going to pass any judgement on her here because I don't know enough about her actual reasoning. But it's interesting info.

Click to expand...

My thinking is that she put her pro-life side aside and appointed the judge on their ability and merits.

aps said:

Okay, so if I support a woman's right to choose what she wants to do with her own pregnancy, but I choose to keep that fetus--how would you label me?

Click to expand...

Pro-Abortion.


You support her choice to get an abortion.


I am pro gun.

I support your RIGHT to own a gun.


Pro-choice is like the way we use the word fetus. To dehumanize the act.


If I was "pro-choice" and someone said to me I was "pro-abortion", I would say "yeah so"?


The fact that you all have a problem with that term, to me, means that some little sliver inside you all, know its wrong. I call that. *Hope*.

Organizations like NOW & the pro choice crowd sure didn't sound pro choice to me when Palin decided to have Trig.

So much for choice and women's rights. :roll:

Reverend_Hellh0und said:

Pro-Abortion.


You support her choice to get an abortion.


I am pro gun.

I support your RIGHT to own a gun.


Pro-choice is like the way we use the word fetus. To dehumanize the act.


If I was "pro-choice" and someone said to me I was "pro-abortion", I would say "yeah so"?


The fact that you all have a problem with that term, to me, means that some little sliver inside you all, know its wrong. I call that. *Hope*.

Click to expand...

I call that *Dishonesty*.

You support the right to own a gun. You are pro-gun.

I support her right to choose. I am pro-choice.

No one is "pro-abortion". I think I am pretty accurate in stating that most pro-choicers when I say that no one is all like "Yay!!!! Abortions for everyone. YAY!!!! Happy abortion day!"