Page 9 of 31 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 301

Thread: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

  1. #81
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    02-17-11 @ 09:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    984

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    As far as I can see his "breaking" was of little direct importance to the immediate saving of lives. It was about confirming information and such.
    Right, but he undoubtedly revealed many operatives which lead to many more operatives etc. I'm really not sure we could get an accurate accounting of this and how many lives were saved. The waterboarding is what got him talking and it seems he kept talking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
    Because war, for sure, there will be victims. When I said I'm not happy that three thousand been killed in America. I feel sorry even...Killing is prohibited in all what you call the People of the Book, Jews, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. You know the Ten Commandments very well. The Ten Commandments are shared between all of us. We all are serving one God."
    Amen.

    War is hell.

  2. #82
    Dorset Patriot
    Wessexman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia(but my heart is back in Dorset.)
    Last Seen
    10-17-17 @ 04:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    8,468

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Right, but he undoubtedly revealed many operatives which lead to many more operatives etc. I'm really not sure we could get an accurate accounting of this and how many lives were saved. The waterboarding is what got him talking and it seems he kept talking.
    As far as I can see his "talking" was far from worth the loss of honour and decency it entailed. He revealed a few names but this isn't 24, it simply was not worth it.

    It seems to me torture may generally add a little bit of of information, that may or may not be true, for a very high price.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-18-09 at 03:41 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

  3. #83
    Girthless
    RightinNYC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New York, NY
    Last Seen
    01-23-11 @ 11:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    25,894

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    As far as I can see his "breaking" was of little direct importance to the immediate saving of lives. It was about confirming information and such.
    Apparently it's not so clear.

    Did waterboarding work? - Los Angeles Times

    The memos released Thursday provide glimpses of the activities at the so-called black sites, secret U.S. prisons around the world. A 2002 document, for example, describes the rising frustration among CIA operatives with the level of cooperation they were getting from a suspected top Al Qaeda operative named Abu Zubaydah.

    "The interrogation team is certain that he has additional information that he refuses to divulge," including potential plots against the United States, a Justice Department official wrote.

    Interrogators complained that Zubaydah, accused of being a key facilitator for the terrorist network, had become accustomed to the methods used against him, and they sought permission to move to "an increased pressure phase."

    Zubaydah eventually was subjected to a battery of interrogation methods, including sleep deprivation, being forced into a cramped box and the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding.

    The documents do not provide details on the results of the methods. Bush and U.S. intelligence officials have said that Zubaydah subsequently provided crucial intelligence that allowed the CIA to capture other Al Qaeda operatives -- including self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed -- and disrupt a number of plots.

    Current and former U.S. intelligence officials said the CIA's cables on Zubaydah and other prisoners make a compelling case for restoring the agency's ability to use certain coercive interrogation methods, even if the agency is permanently barred from the most severe techniques, such as waterboarding.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

  4. #84
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    02-17-11 @ 09:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    984

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Apparently it's not so clear.

    Did waterboarding work? - Los Angeles Times
    Former CIA Director Michael V. Hayden said that releasing the memos "moots the study that the president directed because it will take these techniques off the table because our enemy will know all our approaches." Hayden and others also questioned the purpose of continuing to examine the effectiveness of the CIA program if there is no prospect that even the least severe of the methods could be restored.
    Basically, he blew the bluff. He let the cat out of the bag. Now all our enemies and future enemies know that they have nothing to fear.

  5. #85
    Guru

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,941

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    I am sorry but all you people talking about souring our victory by torture and lowering our own morals are idiots. I went through worse treatment by our own goverment in SERE school and I am fine. What it comes down to is this. We have a suspect who we caught in Iraq. We think he knows about the people setting up IEDs that are killing soldiers. Do you want to be the person who does what is necessary to get the name that leads to the stopping of a cell or do you want to be the one who goes to the wifes home to tell her that her husband isnt coming home and she has to raise her kids on her own. I have had to do that and I know what way I would decide.

  6. #86
    King of Videos
    dirtpoorchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    WA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,023

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    I'm asking you for a shred of evidence for your ridiculous claim.



    This is completely impossible. The CIA's entire purpose in drafting these memos is to put everything into them so that they can cover their ass and put the blame on the OLC if they need to. There is no way on earth that the Obama administration is going to conspire with the Bush administration to cover up this stuff.
    I dunno. I've searched for too long and found nothing but speculative articles and relentless promotions for books. Most common was The Nazi Hydra In America. I have no idea where I got this idea from then but I could have sworn it seemed like solid info. Guess I was just wrong. Maybe I heard it from a relative or something and put too much trust in it I think.

    I apologize.

    I think that Bush and Obama are buddy buddy. Do you think Cheney and Bush are truly mad at each other right now or they are just pretending? Or was that just media B.S.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  7. #87
    Professor
    WillRockwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    07-10-10 @ 09:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,950

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    I am sorry but all you people talking about souring our victory by torture and lowering our own morals are idiots. I went through worse treatment by our own goverment in SERE school and I am fine. What it comes down to is this. We have a suspect who we caught in Iraq. We think he knows about the people setting up IEDs that are killing soldiers. Do you want to be the person who does what is necessary to get the name that leads to the stopping of a cell or do you want to be the one who goes to the wifes home to tell her that her husband isnt coming home and she has to raise her kids on her own. I have had to do that and I know what way I would decide.
    Torture doesn't work. If you were really in the business you would know that.

  8. #88
    Professor
    WillRockwell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    07-10-10 @ 09:48 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,950

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    I disagree. It seems these techniques may have played a vital role in disassembling Al-Queda... Breaking the unbreakable... I also doubt that the militants had any idea what was happening to these 14 "high value" assets in the most controlled human environment in perhaps the entire world. Of course, now that the Idiot in Chief released the memo...

    The "successful" examples of torture which were prominently publicized by the Bush administration, turned out to be fiction. But many servicemen risked their lives discovering they were fiction. Whatever AlQaeda are, they are not pussies, and they will not give up their comrades just because you set their feet on fire.

  9. #89
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Last Seen
    12-26-10 @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,083

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    I love watching people apologize for the torture that went on. First they claimed no torture was happening. Then they claimed that the torture that was happening was not violating international law so it was okay. Now that big organizations are slamming the U.S. government for torturing people the usual apologists are coming forth to now minimize the events that took place in the torture sessions.

    Unbelievable. This is exactly why I say that there is no point in believing U.S. propaganda anymore. Its own people have sold out.

  10. #90
    Professor

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,611

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    They can say whatever the hell they want but that wont stop us from severing diplomatic ties with them or worse. I don't know how you can compare "selling guns" to trying to kill thousands of civilians. 9/11 was interpreted as a declaration of war by Al-queda.

    Repeat after me: "War is hell."
    But look at what is going on in Mexico today. Innocent people are almost getting killed everyday in the drug war. Entire towns have to be taken over by the military because the police is either bought by the drug cartels or not able to fight them. It is also talk about entire states controlled by the drug cartel. The drug cartels have also bought many police officers and government officials in very high places. So just like 9/11 you can talk about a war and a national emergency.

    Remember also that not only people high up that was caught in Afghanistan and tortured but also support people like for example chauffeurs to the leadership. The bush regime and CIA probably wouldn’t have any objection to capturing and torturing a gun seller caught in Afganisthan suspected of selling guns and also having massive contact and knowledge about Al queda. So yes having an American tortured in Mexico because he was suspected of selling guns and having contact with the drug cartel, is just the time of grey areas the CIA use of torture can create.

Page 9 of 31 FirstFirst ... 789101119 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •