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Thread: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

  1. #61
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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I agree with you and I'm not saying that war is roses and no one gets tortured or interrogated. What I'm saying is that the U.S. should stop projecting this image of decency to the world when it engages in wartime tactics that are not decent. I inherently understand the realities of living in an anarchy of states in the world, so I'm not surprised or shocked that torture happens.
    I don't think this qualifies as torture. Have you read the memo? It's pretty tame and the psychological and physical well-being of the detainees was monitored by medical professionals.

    All I'm rebelling against is the propaganda that the U.S. is such a peacekeeping force, representing the law, justice, liberty, etc. It generally only gets involved in campaigns that serve its interests, and the rules against torture that it claims to uphold are easily discarded when it suits its interests.

    That is all. If you're a wolf, just admit you're a wolf. Don't pretend to be anything else.
    I find this pretty insulting. War itself is 180 degrees juxtaposed to our ideals. Yet:

    1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance
    to the State.

    2. It is a matter of life and death, a road either
    to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry
    which can on no account be neglected.
    And this will not change in the foreseeable future.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    I don't think this qualifies as torture. Have you read the memo? It's pretty tame and the psychological and physical well-being of the detainees was monitored by medical professionals.



    I find this pretty insulting. War itself is 180 degrees juxtaposed to our ideals. Yet:



    And this will not change in the foreseeable future.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-9x-8ys7t0"]YouTube - WWII - The Life of Jews in Theresienstadt Concentration Camp 1/2 (1944)[/ame]

    Did you know that a lot of Nazi's defected straight into our government in conclusion of the war?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    I don't think this qualifies as torture. Have you read the memo? It's pretty tame and the psychological and physical well-being of the detainees was monitored by medical professionals.
    As far as I can see it is is pretty extreme and creates great distress, it was used by Pol Pot's regime for instance. I don't think the presence of doctors necessarily removes a lot of the distressing aspects of it.

    These individuals could only put up with mere seconds of it, if I recall correctly.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    As far as I can see it is is pretty extreme and creates great distress, it was used by Pol Pot's regime for instance. I don't think the presence of doctors necessarily removes a lot of the distressing aspects of it.

    These individuals could only put up with mere seconds of it, if I recall correctly.
    Read the memos. I seriously doubt Pol Pot, whose regime would suck the brains out of living people's heads and eat them, exercised the same level of care.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    YouTube - WWII - The Life of Jews in Theresienstadt Concentration Camp 1/2 (1944)

    Did you know that a lot of Nazi's defected straight into our government in conclusion of the war?
    Why are you comparing a propaganda film produced for public consumption to a Top Secret memo that was never meant to be released?

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Read the memos. I seriously doubt Pol Pot, whose regime would suck the brains out of living people's heads and eat them, exercised the same level of care.
    Again I'm not sure the supervision makes up for the procedure itself.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Did you know that a lot of Nazi's defected straight into our government in conclusion of the war?
    Link?

    ......
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Link?

    ......
    So you are saying after ww2 we didn't get a little bit of Nazi leadership?
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Why are you comparing a propaganda film produced for public consumption to a Top Secret memo that was never meant to be released?
    Crap purposely put out to make it look good is still crap. You don't think this is a fallback? Something planned to be released long ago if the heat got too bad in an attempt to sugar coat it. That's what is seems like to me.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    So you are saying after ww2 we didn't get a little bit of Nazi leadership?
    I'm asking you for a shred of evidence for your ridiculous claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Crap purposely put out to make it look good is still crap. You don't think this is a fallback? Something planned to be released long ago if the heat got too bad in an attempt to sugar coat it. That's what is seems like to me.
    This is completely impossible. The CIA's entire purpose in drafting these memos is to put everything into them so that they can cover their ass and put the blame on the OLC if they need to. There is no way on earth that the Obama administration is going to conspire with the Bush administration to cover up this stuff.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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