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Thread: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post

    Wikipedia can start you off, but Nuremberg, Geneva Conventions & many others all apply. To say that once conflict begins, all rules disappear is just flat wrong.
    Geneva Conventions don't apply to terrorists. To put it in insurance lingo, the terrorists don't have any coverage. And its not as if its too expensive. All they need to do is adopt an identifiable military uniform.
    "Loyalty only matters when there's a hundred reasons not to be-" Gen. Mattis

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Oh that's right, we're all owned by Dear Leader now. Silly me, I forgot.

    That whole bit about "we the people".....we don't need that any more now that Dear Leader has come to save us from ourselves, is that it?

    Your servile attitude towards government nauseates.
    I was talking about Eric Holder...the new Atty. General who was appointed by the newly ELECTED President, got approval from the U.S. Senate & agreed that waterboarding was indeed torture at his confirmation hearings.
    What are YOUR credentials for disagreeing with Holder?

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    I was talking about Eric Holder...the new Atty. General who was appointed by the newly ELECTED President, got approval from the U.S. Senate & agreed that waterboarding was indeed torture at his confirmation hearings.
    What are YOUR credentials for disagreeing with Holder?
    Easy. I voted against Dear Leader.

    That alone makes me more qualified than his yes-man AG.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post

    You people and your pretended ethics.

    So were they going for one waterboarding per 9/11 victim? At least he'd still be alive afterward, huh? The way I see it, if he was to be waterboarded for every dead American from his day of celebration....he would still continue to breathe. He should be greatful he was imprisoned by America and not some country that would have chopped his head off or hung him from a rope by now.

    Come to think about it.....perhaps I'm on to something here. Clearly it's their own governments and strangling culture that has them twisted, oppressed, and brutalized. Yet, they choose to strike at that ole' faithful enemy of God across the ocean. Maybe this is because striking at the great "anti-God," boogeyman makes it easier to create a never ending struggle for God. That and striking at their own governments would see them tortured, brutalized along with their tribes, and slaughtered. It's seems easier to strike at the pansies who seek to fight back with manners and Western rules.


    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Damn looks like the number of times he was water boarded is a thread killer.

    Instead of entertaining your trivial insignificant thrill of your "thread killer," maybe you should appreciate the fact that you seek compassion for an "American killer."

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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So hypothetically, would you be willing to undergo waterboarding, since there's no actual physical harm?
    Sure. Plenty of U.S. military personnel do it. Waterboarding and prolonged standing is a fact of life for the U.S. military in their training.

    With closed fists, knives, battery terminals, electricity, sticks under finger nails, the rack, limb pulling, and other such things the rest of the world used-and uses-as examples of "torture".......the grand heartbreak is a couple techniques that even our own people endure in their training?

    This entire thing is more about bowing to the international masses who need America to look exactly like the Germans who burned, gassed, and massacred millions of people or the French government in Algeria that made open and brutal torture of hundreds of thousands of people a matter of state policy for years.

    When are people going to get it? All they need is one tiny example where America took off the white glove and stepped off of its high and mighty perch in the sky, to absolve themselves and to drag us down. "Waterboarding" is the tool of the day. President Obama is playing into their hands as is everyone else who seeks to depict wateboarding as some henious act of "torture."

    We could have put this garbage up at the Hilton and people would have fell all over themselves to defend their rights just because they smelled bacon in the morning.
    Last edited by MSgt; 04-23-09 at 12:38 AM.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    There are accepted & binding Laws of War that violation of, can (& have) resulted in the death penalty to the violator.

    Ha! I always get a kick out of this. Who's "law?" The Western world's law? The Geneva Convention of the West? Because half the players in the war do not hold themselves accountable to our laws, our ethics, our codes, nor our manners. How arrogant are we that we create a bunch of codes and laws in the wake of European civil war and expect the rest of the world to fight as gentlemen and in accordance to what we believe.

    You see, half the members of this war do not subscribe to such western "rules" like fighting under a banner or in a uniform. Or that the difference between a civilian and a soldier even makes a difference. In fact, half of this war's membership prefers to destroy civilians because it is easier and it gets a bigger bang for their buck in the media.

    So we don't consider them combatants, just international thugs and criminals. YET, they consider themselves fighting a war as soldiers for God against heathens, non-believers, heretics, and enemies of God. Their reasons for war may be twisted, hypocritical, and flat out retarded, but they consider themselves as much a military organization as the U.S. Marine Corps or Army. Do they get to be charged for breaking the rules of war under the Geneva Convention or do we simply pick and choose which Geneva rules allow us to play with manners while seeking ways to ignore the rules they break every damn day? Or do they have their own set of rules that counter the arrogance of the West's who assumes their rules work for all?

    Hmmmm. Quite the dillema. Do we hold them as prisoners of war or do we place them in a New York courtroom to be released to kill another day? Perhaps we can assign them lawyers and pretend they are just gang members. They seem to like the idea. They get to kill Americans and then wait for Americans to protest their incarceration while lobbying to send them a fleet of American lawyers to free them. All in the name of being a part of some BS higher moral fiber which amounts to nothing when they lose interest, get bored, and switch the channel.


    Wait..wait...wait. Perhaps I misunderstood you. When you stated "Laws of War" I automatically thought of military personnel. It's the CIA being accused and harrassed of using decades old techniques (only under Bush though). Do they wear uniforms? Do they operate under "Rules of War" (ROE) like those in uniform? Or are they something else? With Islamic religious prescriptions being met, square cultural diets every day, and medical aid being provided, I would state that no American prisoner ever had it so good. But a few were waterboarded and the whole world (including weak kneed Americans) behave as if they were thrown in the iron maidens, or in the German ovens, or destroyed in a tower in New York.

    There seems to be more confusion than clarity in this matter. I find it pathetic how so many people think they got it figured out.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Easy. I voted against Dear Leader.

    That alone makes me more qualified than his yes-man AG.
    I see....Let me see if I have this right: In your eyes Holder is just a yes-man to his President, so I guess Gonzales was an independent AG?

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by GySgt View Post
    You see, half the members of this war do not subscribe to such western "rules" like fighting under a banner or in a uniform.
    Maybe if I clarified my position on this "WAR" it would be helpful:

    I don't consider the 9/11 attack, the The Munich Olympics massacre in 1972 or any acts of terrorism....acts of war.
    One dictionary definition of WAR is:
    A contest between nations or states, carried on by force, whether for defence, for revenging insults and redressing wrongs, for the extension of commerce, for the acquisition of territory, for obtaining and establishing the superiority and dominion of one over the other, or for any other purpose; armed conflict of sovereign powers; declared and open hostilities. (my emphasis) war - Definition of war at Define.com Dictionary and Thesaurus (define war)

    I accept the above definition of WAR (it can only exists between nations/states) & that the so-called ...WAR on poverty....WAR on cancer....WAR on Drugs & the WAR on terrorism are just marketing tools designed to show serious intent to the public these "Wars" are being sold too.

    Terrorist attacks, regardless of how huge & heinous they may be, are simply criminal acts & need to be treated that way. The invocation of Constitutional ....Presidential "War Powers" has gotten us into the mess we now face.

    What I think needs to happen, is our Congress has to accept a new reality:
    That we now live in a world where we face terrible dangers from groups who do not neatly fit into our outdated rules of war or criminality. These groups fall somewhere between criminals & combatants & we need to face that reality & draft new laws to accept it.
    Last edited by Devil505; 04-23-09 at 07:58 AM.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil505 View Post
    Terrorist attacks, regardless of how huge & heinous they may be, are simply criminal acts & need to be treated that way. The invocation of Constitutional ....Presidential "War Powers" has gotten us into the mess we now face.
    In other words, terrorists can attack the United States, wage war on the United States, and before we can do anything about it we need to first read them the Miranda warning.

    Terrorists are unlawful enemy combatants, not criminals. At no point should they see the inside of a courtroom. If they are not seeing the inside of an interrogation room they should be seeing the inside of a grave.

    Prior administrations' unwillingness to acknowledge this simple truth is what has created the current "mess".

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    In other words, terrorists can attack the United States, wage war on the United States, and before we can do anything about it we need to first read them the Miranda warning.

    Terrorists are unlawful enemy combatants, not criminals. At no point should they see the inside of a courtroom. If they are not seeing the inside of an interrogation room they should be seeing the inside of a grave.

    Prior administrations' unwillingness to acknowledge this simple truth is what has created the current "mess".
    Were the 2 North Hollywood bank robbers (who tried to rob a bank in LA in 1997) "unlawful enemy combatants"......waging war on the U.S., or criminals? Some criminals want money others have other agendas but they are ALL criminals using unlawful means to achieve their purpose.
    Your arrogant stating of your opinion that "Terrorists are unlawful enemy combatants, not criminals" does not make it a fact, no matter how emphatic you get.

    My problem with using the concept that we are at war with these criminals is that a state of war, triggers our Constitution"s vast "War Powers" authority upon the President which, if we have an unintelligent or ill-intentioned President (like Bush) can & did lead us to the brink of catastrophe.
    Last edited by Devil505; 04-23-09 at 12:22 PM.

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