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Thread: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do you see any distinctions between countries depending on their policies, or do you just lump everyone who has committed what you consider torture in the same boat?

    In your eyes, is a country that takes a few individuals suspected of having information of imminent terrorist attacks and waterboards them, all while carefully monitoring their vital signs, effectively the same as a country that arrests thousands of dissidents, castrates them, rapes their families, etc.?
    I actually wasn't comparing the U.S. to other nations when I said what I said. I'm comparing the U.S. to its own standard of "fairness and liberty" that it attempts to project to the world's nations. I have always found it ironic that such notions fly out the window when it suits the powers that be.

    If you were to compare the U.S. to China, then no I would not say that the U.S. is as severe... but torture is torture and the justifications don't really matter to me.

    What I basically meant was that the next time I hear the words "freedom, justice, and liberty" come out of the mouths of your political leaders, I will know to take it with a grain of salt. They are just talking words that don't represent any sort of reality in U.S. foreign policy.

    The U.S. is NOT a peacekeeping nation. It is a warring nation.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post

    The U.S. is NOT a peacekeeping nation. It is a warring nation.
    Outside of the policies of Bush/Cheney, that is just not so. Most of the conflicts we have entered were for the purpose of ending genocide or terrorist sanctuaries.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    If you want to see the actual memos, go here:

    American Civil Liberties Union : Office of Legal Counsel Memos

    I would strongly suggest reading through some of them. You might be surprised.
    I am definitely interested in reading through these, so thank you for posting the link. What do you mean by your comment I highlighted above? I am very curious.....

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Do you see any distinctions between countries depending on their policies, or do you just lump everyone who has committed what you consider torture in the same boat?

    In your eyes, is a country that takes a few individuals suspected of having information of imminent terrorist attacks and waterboards them, all while carefully monitoring their vital signs, effectively the same as a country that arrests thousands of dissidents, castrates them, rapes their families, etc.?
    You can just take Mexico for example, that you have an American arrested their suspected of selling guns to the drug cartel. If you American protest over that he is killed during torture. Then Mexicans can say hey we are just like you after 9/11 in a national emergency and thousands of people have been killed during the drug wars, we have to do what is neccissary. That we believed that the American guy had vital information and as a poor country we don't have the same fancy equpment to monitor vital signs.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    I love the self righteous issues.

    We make/use incredibly horrendous weapons to decimate other human beings with, then get all bent out of shape when someone puts a guy in a box with a catepillar in order to play on his fears and extract information.
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I actually wasn't comparing the U.S. to other nations when I said what I said. I'm comparing the U.S. to its own standard of "fairness and liberty" that it attempts to project to the world's nations. I have always found it ironic that such notions fly out the window when it suits the powers that be.

    If you were to compare the U.S. to China, then no I would not say that the U.S. is as severe... but torture is torture and the justifications don't really matter to me.

    What I basically meant was that the next time I hear the words "freedom, justice, and liberty" come out of the mouths of your political leaders, I will know to take it with a grain of salt. They are just talking words that don't represent any sort of reality in U.S. foreign policy.

    The U.S. is NOT a peacekeeping nation. It is a warring nation.
    The world of intelligence gathering is not all roses you know. In Russia they'd shove a soldering iron up your butt and turn it on. In China they'd beat you with electric batons.

    If you knew that a guy was a terrorist with information on an imminent terrorist attack and you only have 48 hours to get it out of him before the attack goes forward, what are you going to do? Give him a box of chocolates?

    Waterboarding isn't exactly "humane" but neither is killing 3000 people. It could have been a lot worse. War is hell.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    You can just take Mexico for example, that you have an American arrested their suspected of selling guns to the drug cartel. If you American protest over that he is killed during torture. Then Mexicans can say hey we are just like you after 9/11 in a national emergency and thousands of people have been killed during the drug wars, we have to do what is neccissary. That we believed that the American guy had vital information and as a poor country we don't have the same fancy equpment to monitor vital signs.
    They can say whatever the hell they want but that wont stop us from severing diplomatic ties with them or worse. I don't know how you can compare "selling guns" to trying to kill thousands of civilians. 9/11 was interpreted as a declaration of war by Al-queda.

    Repeat after me: "War is hell."

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    The world of intelligence gathering is not all roses you know. In Russia they'd shove a soldering iron up your butt and turn it on. In China they'd beat you with electric batons.

    If you knew that a guy was a terrorist with information on an imminent terrorist attack and you only have 48 hours to get it out of him before the attack goes forward, what are you going to do? Give him a box of chocolates?

    Waterboarding isn't exactly "humane" but neither is killing 3000 people. It could have been a lot worse. War is hell.
    Torture doesn't work. It doesn't yield useful information. If you were torturing a terrorist about a ticking bomb, he wouldn't tell you squat.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Torture doesn't work. It doesn't yield useful information. If you were torturing a terrorist about a ticking bomb, he wouldn't tell you squat.
    The CIA thinks it does work. Are you more qualified than the CIA to tell me what interrogation methods do or do not work? NOW it wont work because NOW everybody knows the CIA's methods are basically bluffs and they're not actually going to hurt you.

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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    I actually wasn't comparing the U.S. to other nations when I said what I said. I'm comparing the U.S. to its own standard of "fairness and liberty" that it attempts to project to the world's nations. I have always found it ironic that such notions fly out the window when it suits the powers that be.

    If you were to compare the U.S. to China, then no I would not say that the U.S. is as severe... but torture is torture and the justifications don't really matter to me.

    What I basically meant was that the next time I hear the words "freedom, justice, and liberty" come out of the mouths of your political leaders, I will know to take it with a grain of salt. They are just talking words that don't represent any sort of reality in U.S. foreign policy.

    The U.S. is NOT a peacekeeping nation. It is a warring nation.
    Your comments border on hysterics and are beyond offensive; but I found the highlighted passage particularly offensive and illustrative of the historic ignorance of the "hate America" crowd.

    Thanks for illustrating it so well.

    It begs the question; who will liberate those nations and protect them from despots, dictators tyrants and terrorists if not America?

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