Page 16 of 31 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 301

Thread: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

  1. #151
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Oh here's a much better video, uncut.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9iaPSdF1fY"]YouTube - Obama Speaking To CIA Defends Release Of Torture Memos[/ame]

    Interesting. He's a good talker.

    My only dispute with what he said is if we from here on out have decided we will not waterboard ok. But by saying we should not be ashamed to admit our mistakes he is implying that we acted in a wrong manner. He doesn't go so far as to claim that we acted in an illegal manner, but still implies wrongdoing on the parts of our military. I wish he had not done that. I think it's unfair. I'm also curious about what exactly Obama feels they should be able to do in the process of an interrogation or if he feels interrogation is off the table. We train our own men and women on how to not give up information, do we not? Clearly folks don't just tell you stuff 'cause you ask sweetly. What forms of interrogation are ok if waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc are not? If things that cause no bodily harm in the long term are off the table than how can anything be on the table?

    Also, I think much of this type of talk belongs somewhat behind closed doors. I mean it seems rather stupid for folks fighting against us to have a checklist of what our men and women are not allowed to do them. How does that not embolden them?

    For folks who are against waterboarding what means of gathering information from captured peoples would you support?
    Last edited by talloulou; 04-21-09 at 02:57 PM.

  2. #152
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    Did he really say we "lost our moral bearing"??? I want to see that video. That's an awful thing to say. If you are now going to hold a higher standard that's one thing but it just seems sort of crappy to get up on a high horse and condemn the acts of your own military when what they did was not illegal. Right? Especially when you get all hysterical with your language and start condemning them about their "mistakes" "wrongdoings" and treatment of peoples who if the tables were turned would behead our folks without hesitation.

    Am I missing something? Was waterboarding illegal?

  3. #153
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Oh here's a much better video, uncut.

    YouTube - Obama Speaking To CIA Defends Release Of Torture Memos

    Interesting. He's a good talker.

    My only dispute with what he said is if we from here on out have decided we will not waterboard ok. But by saying we should not be ashamed to admit our mistakes he is implying that we acted in a wrong manner. He doesn't go so far as to claim that we acted in an illegal manner, but still implies wrongdoing on the parts of our military. I wish he had not done that. I think it's unfair. I'm also curious about what exactly Obama feels they should be able to do in the process of an interrogation or if he feels interrogation is off the table. We train our own men and women on how to not give up information, do we not? Clearly folks don't just tell you stuff 'cause you ask sweetly. What forms of interrogation are ok if waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc are not? If things that cause no bodily harm in the long term are off the table than how can anything be on the table?

    Also, I think much of this type of talk belongs somewhat behind closed doors. I mean it seems rather stupid for folks fighting against us to have a checklist of what our men and women are not allowed to do them. How does that not embolden them?

    For folks who are against waterboarding what means of gathering information from captured peoples would you support?

    Obama was elected to apologize for all the evil the United States, the source of all evil in the world, has done.

    Didn't you know that?

  4. #154
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Obama was elected to apologize for all the evil the United States, the source of all evil in the world, has done.

    Didn't you know that?
    He does seem to rather have a holier than thou "Thank God I'm here to set everything straight," mentality that is really getting on my nerves. He is not handling this situation well at all IMO. If you want to make waterboarding illegal fine. I'd like to know what's going to replace it. But the talk is just so hysterical. It's as if we were cutting folks fingers off, pulling off their nails, setting them on fire when really we're talking keeping them awake and pouring water over their heads - causing no actual physical damage. He's getting a little over the top with his moral parading.

  5. #155
    King of Videos
    dirtpoorchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    WA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,025

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Oh here's a much better video, uncut.

    YouTube - Obama Speaking To CIA Defends Release Of Torture Memos

    Interesting. He's a good talker.

    My only dispute with what he said is if we from here on out have decided we will not waterboard ok. But by saying we should not be ashamed to admit our mistakes he is implying that we acted in a wrong manner. He doesn't go so far as to claim that we acted in an illegal manner, but still implies wrongdoing on the parts of our military. I wish he had not done that. I think it's unfair. I'm also curious about what exactly Obama feels they should be able to do in the process of an interrogation or if he feels interrogation is off the table. We train our own men and women on how to not give up information, do we not? Clearly folks don't just tell you stuff 'cause you ask sweetly. What forms of interrogation are ok if waterboarding, sleep deprivation, etc are not? If things that cause no bodily harm in the long term are off the table than how can anything be on the table?

    Also, I think much of this type of talk belongs somewhat behind closed doors. I mean it seems rather stupid for folks fighting against us to have a checklist of what our men and women are not allowed to do them. How does that not embolden them?

    For folks who are against waterboarding what means of gathering information from captured peoples would you support?
    We counter torture train out troops in case BAD people get a hold of them.... Interrogation is asking someone questions. Not asking them questions with fear of their life being mixed in. So what about all the torture that went on with people that where simply resistant and had no information to give?

    The trouble is people merging stuff with newspeak. Water boarding and sleep deprivation is not interrogation.... its torture.

    As for how to interrogate? You gotta have someone over their head to bargain with... like some intel on them. You got to catch someone red handed and then turn their world to ****. Have some things you know are true about them and ask them smart things to get them to slip up.

    Not just scoop up tons of people and try the ones that give you good enough "confessions" because they where tired of being water boarded over and over.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 04-21-09 at 03:12 PM.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  6. #156
    King of Videos
    dirtpoorchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    WA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,025

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Does waterboarding fit any of these definitions?

    tor⋅ture noun, verb, -tured, -tur⋅ing.
    –noun
    1. the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.
    2. a method of inflicting such pain.
    3. Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.
    4. extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.
    5. a cause of severe pain or anguish.
    –verb (used with object)
    6. to subject to torture.
    7. to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.
    8. to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!
    9. to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.
    10. to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).
    in⋅ter⋅ro⋅gate verb, -gat⋅ed, -gat⋅ing.
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to ask questions of (a person), sometimes to seek answers or information that the person questioned considers personal or secret.
    2. to examine by questions; question formally: The police captain interrogated the suspect.
    –verb (used without object)
    3. to ask questions, esp. formally or officially: the right to interrogate.
    Guess it all depends if you hold your breath or not and for how long.
    Last edited by dirtpoorchris; 04-21-09 at 03:17 PM.
    I'm Finding it Harder to be a Gentleman, White Stripes ~ "You think I care about me and only me. When every girl needs help climbing up a tree."

  7. #157
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tiamat's better half
    Last Seen
    10-28-11 @ 01:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    15,998

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    How much transparency do we expect with "war" talk? Personally I think right now there's way too much. I'm curious what others think on that. I think civilians don't have the stomach for war and don't remember that when talking about it. In some ways that's a good thing and in other ways - when it comes to condemning those serving our country - it has horrible implications.

    People captured in a time of war are NOT going to talk if you just ask them questions. They're just not. You have to realize that they have already decided that what they're fighting against is worth dying for. Some folks would rather be dead then be uncomfortable which is why some of this stuff leads to the gaining of information in the first place. Right???

    I do think there's barbaric things and I would most definitely not support our government chopping off fingers and what not.

    But it appears that we are now going to go down the path of our military not being able to do anything to captured folks at all other than take good solid care of them. When you're up against people who will put your people on tv and chop their heads off I'm not sure that's solid policy.

  8. #158
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    09-22-10 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    11,430

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    We counter torture train out troops in case BAD people get a hold of them.... Interrogation is asking someone questions. Not asking them questions with fear of their life being mixed in. So what about all the torture that went on with people that where simply resistant and had no information to give?
    That's a weird definition of "interrogation". A real definition is asking questions in a manner the produces results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    The trouble is people merging stuff with newspeak. Water boarding and sleep deprivation is not interrogation.... its torture.
    Nah, you're just forgetting the questions that go with it. You're thinking that waterboarding is like when the Empire induced pain into Han Solo in The Empire Strikes Back... "They're not asking anything, they're just causing pain".

    That's torture.

    The word "interrogation" implies agressiveness and determination, a little waterboarding is just a harmless form of enhancement, is all. It's not like we're talking about people here, no...we're discussing terrorists, right?

  9. #159
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Last Seen
    02-17-11 @ 09:06 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    984

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    I'm going to come out and say that its good these practices have stopped and hopefully this will be followed by the introduction of a new international convention that outlaws the these techniques. Currently, the Convention Against Torture reads:

    For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
    Wording a new convention would be very difficult, but I have confidence that we are resourceful enough to figure it out. So the question becomes "what are we going to do now?" That's the question that has no easy answer.

  10. #160
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Last Seen
    07-18-09 @ 04:56 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,041

    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    I'm glad Cheney has called out this crap.

    Time to see what worked instead of listening to know nothings telling people what they think failed based on nothing but their own idealistic flippant opinion.


    Release the documents that show the success OBAMA or shut your pie hole.

Page 16 of 31 FirstFirst ... 6141516171826 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •