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Thread: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So hypothetically, would you be willing to undergo waterboarding, since there's no actual physical harm?
    Obviously you don't understand why one undergoes water boarding or you would not ask such absurd questions.

    Why would anyone have to, or want to willingly go through water boarding? Under going water boarding is not something one volunteers for, it is done to those who pose a great risk to our citizens and to obtain critical information to prevent future acts that place citizens under risk.

    I would suggest you direct your questions to our military staff that have actually undergone this act. They will tell you with more credibility than you'll ever get from the New York Times that they were subjected to it without suffering any "physical" harm.


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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    So hypothetically, would you be willing to undergo waterboarding, since there's no actual physical harm?
    That could be said about anything we do to prisoners. Would you be willing to go to jail, be in solitary confinement, eat crappy food from a tray shoved into your cell, etc.

    Pointless question. My unwillingness to do something doesn't mean that something should be off the table for prisoners.

    Not supporting waterboarding here - just pointing out the irrelevance of the question.

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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Obviously you don't understand why one undergoes water boarding or you would not ask such absurd questions.
    Yes, why DOES one undergo waterboarding? To get information, right? And why are people willing to "talk" if they are waterboarded?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector
    Why would anyone have to, or want to willingly go through water boarding? Under going water boarding is not something one volunteers for, it is done to those who pose a great risk to our citizens and to obtain critical information to prevent future acts that place citizens under risk.

    I would suggest you direct your questions to our military staff that have actually undergone this act. They will tell you with more credibility than you'll ever get from the New York Times that they were subjected to it without suffering any "physical" harm.
    Bull****. Nearly everyone who has voluntarily undergone the process has said that they were scared of drowning and did indeed feel like they were tortured. In fact, I am not aware of ANY accounts of people saying "No big deal" after they were waterboarded.
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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Bull****. Nearly everyone who has voluntarily undergone the process has said that they were scared of drowning and did indeed feel like they were tortured. In fact, I am not aware of ANY accounts of people saying "No big deal" after they were waterboarded.
    I see you also have issues comprehending the difference between "scared of drowning", "feel like", "sensation of drowning" and physical harm.

    The only BS here is the crapola being shoveled out by Liberals and Democrats for purely partisan political purposes.

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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Using blog sites and "anonymous" sources for credible news should outrage anyone concerned with honest investigative journalism.
    I don't know about outrage, but I agree that they should be criticized in those specific situations. However, I don't see how they used blog sites as a source. As for the anonymous sources, they stated that they were anonymous so they weren't hiding anything. They didn't even indicate the credibility of those sources. They merely mentioned them for what they were.

    This story should never have been printed in anything BUT the Star Weekly or National Enquirer. It is the same level of journalistic garbage.
    Oh come on. That's a bit of an absurd comparison. Have you ever read the National Enquirer or Star Weekly?

    But then, when it serves a particular partisan political view, Liberals and Democrats think credible honest journalism can be waived for sensationalist suspect articles with little investigation, sourcing and vetting.
    I never said that. I just think that your outrage is a bit overboard especially considering that your assertions are incorrect and grossly exaggerated. Plus you said in your subject that they were lies. Even if you were correct in your assertions, how is information from blogs and anonymous sources "lies"? It's unproven and even unverified, but not a lie. It's not a lie until it's proven incorrect.

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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    If you understood the legal definition of torture, it requires physical harm; I would submit that being water boarded 6 times a day for 31 days without any evidence of physical harm pretty much destroys the Left Wing and Democrats claims that water boarding can be construed as a form of torture.
    Torture does not require physical harm and even if it did require physical harm it does not require the physical harm to be visible for X days. I don't see how someone can say making someone feel like they are going to die of drowning 6 times a day is not torture.

    Making someone go mentally insane through emotional and psychological techniques can be classified as torture as well.
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    Re: Obama Rules Out Charging C.I.A. Agents in Interrogations

    Quote Originally Posted by Orius View Post
    No one will ever be brought to justice for the tortures that went on in Gitmo because the administration doesn't care. All that matters to me is that it happened, and the details are now public. The U.S. no longer has the right to cry out against other nations that employ torture.
    Agreed.
    Neither can UK or any other western country that helped directly or indirectly US to torture people.

    Well, it is way dark down here when we are off our high stool of morality

    US may not charge it's CIA agents but i want the M15/6 agents to be dragged by the hair infront of the law lords
    Last edited by Laila; 04-20-09 at 06:30 PM.


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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Torture does not require physical harm and even if it did require physical harm it does not require the physical harm to be visible for X days. I don't see how someone can say making someone feel like they are going to die of drowning 6 times a day is not torture.

    Making someone go mentally insane through emotional and psychological techniques can be classified as torture as well.
    There's levels to torture; especially mental torture. Just being captured would arguably be torturous. Being imprisoned would be torturous for some.

    I honestly don't know enough about waterboarding to have an educated opinion. However from what I do no it rarely results in any permanent damage. It's certainly not up there with chopping off digits, limbs, or a beheading.

    But seriously if we argue from the standpoint that anything that causes mental duress is torture then where does that end? Most anything can be torturous to some. Showering naked in the presence of others could cause mental anguish.

    I know I'd rather be waterboarded than go to prison, have my fingernails plied off one by one, or my hands chopped off.

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    Re: Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    There's levels to torture; especially mental torture. Just being captured would arguably be torturous. Being imprisoned would be torturous for some.

    I honestly don't know enough about waterboarding to have an educated opinion. However from what I do no it rarely results in any permanent damage. It's certainly not up there with chopping off digits, limbs, or a beheading.

    But seriously if we argue from the standpoint that anything that causes mental duress is torture then where does that end? Most anything can be torturous to some. Showering naked in the presence of others could cause mental anguish.

    I know I'd rather be waterboarded than go to prison, have my fingernails plied off one by one, or my hands chopped off.
    Chopping off limbs or beheading someone is more then just torture, it's barbaric.

    What someone considers or does not consider torture is arbitrary so there must be defined qualifications and perspective. Making someone feel like they are drowning is torture, to me. The same as any other method you can see in a traditional medieval torture chamber. Forcing someone to kill their own children would also be considered torture to me. Even though no physical harm is done to the individual.
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    mad Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    Remember all of those Bushies, especially AHOLE Cheney claiming that waterboarding was only used three times?

    The legacy of the Bush Administration and all of those that supported his policies continues to go even lower despite with each revelation the seeming belief that it can't get any lower!
    Waterboarding Used 266 Times on 2 Suspects

    By SCOTT SHANE - The NY Times
    Published: April 19, 2009

    C.I.A. interrogators used waterboarding, the near-drowning technique that top Obama administration officials have described as illegal torture, 266 times on two key prisoners from Al Qaeda, far more than had been previously reported.

    The C.I.A. officers used waterboarding at least 83 times in August 2002 against Abu Zubaydah, according to a 2005 Justice Department legal memorandum. Abu Zubaydah has been described as a Qaeda operative.

    A former C.I.A. officer, John Kiriakou, told ABC News and other news media organizations in 2007 that Abu Zubaydah had undergone waterboarding for only 35 seconds before agreeing to tell everything he knew.

    The 2005 memo also says that the C.I.A. used waterboarding 183 times in March 2003 against Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-described planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    The New York Times reported in 2007 that Mr. Mohammed had been barraged more than 100 times with harsh interrogation methods, causing C.I.A. officers to worry that they might have crossed legal limits and to halt his questioning. But the precise number and the exact nature of the interrogation method was not previously known.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/wo...erboard&st=cse

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