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Thread: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiB. View Post
    Okay, I was just checking if the preservation of chattel slavery is something you consider worthy of fighting for. Your answer would imply yes.
    The Civil War wasn't about "slavery" at all. It was about Northern aggression toward the South over the South not progressing fast enough to suit the whims of the North.

    The Civil War was about state's rights. Slavery was secondary.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The only thing the Civil War "settled" was that Lincoln was willing to shred the Constitution and abandon his oath of office under the presumed virtue of "saving the Union."

    Given that the Radical Republicans under Thad Stevens and Charles Sumner compelled the former Confederate States to be "readmitted" to the Union, they established that secession was indeed possible and plausible, and even permissible.
    Please, explain to me how he "shredded" the constitution. Where does it states or even imply that a state had the right to leave the Union? Why would the founders make it so easy for the Union to self Destruct? I have read the constitution over and over, and I can't find any "self destructive" cluase or even one that implies it's okay to destroy the nation. So please, point it out to me. Thanks Bunches.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiB. View Post
    And slavery as the reason the South seceded...
    No... the issue was the southern states being able to exercise the rights they had under the US Constitition. Secession followed a matter of principle.

    Part of all that was slavery, but the -principle- behind it was the rights of states.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiB. View Post
    And slavery as the reason the South seceded and started a war seems to be brushed aside to easily. The statements of the confederates themselves show that it was a driving force behind their actions.
    That is not why the South seceded and started a war. The north fired the first shots and refused to abdicate control of a southern owned territory.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    The only thing the Civil War "settled" was that Lincoln was willing to shred the Constitution and abandon his oath of office under the presumed virtue of "saving the Union."

    Given that the Radical Republicans under Thad Stevens and Charles Sumner compelled the former Confederate States to be "readmitted" to the Union, they established that secession was indeed possible and plausible, and even permissible.
    I would argue they wanted to be "readmitted" not to prove it was possible or plausable to leave and come back, but becuase the destroyed south needed the northern industries to survive. 25 percent of farm animals had been killed, homes, machine shops, the few mills they had, banks, the confederate currency and the Federal blocaked made what was left of the south worse than a third world country. I would say their willingness to be reamitted had more to do with defeat and survival than to prove that they were right. To argue overwise is just a little absurd and stretching.
    Last edited by carolinaguy; 04-17-09 at 03:29 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinaguy View Post
    Please, explain to me how he "shredded" the constitution. Where does it states or even imply that a state had the right to leave the Union?
    I have read the constitution over and over, and I can't find any "self destructive" cluase or even one that implies it's okay to destroy the nation.
    Secession is not prohibuited by the Constitution.
    According to the 10th amendment, States retain all rights not prohibited by the Constitution.
    Thus, they retained the right to secession.

    Why would the founders make it so easy for the Union to self Destruct?
    The right of a sovereign state to determine what is in its best interest?
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-17-09 at 03:27 PM.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    The Civil War wasn't about "slavery" at all. It was about Northern aggression toward the South over the South not progressing fast enough to suit the whims of the North.

    The Civil War was about state's rights. Slavery was secondary.
    If the south seceded due to state's rights why did they complain in their decelerations of secession about the Northern states going against the fugitive slave law? If it wasn't about slavery why did the same secession documents talk about the issue of slavery so much? If it wasn't about slavery why did Alexander Stephens say that the cornerstone of the Confederacy rested on the subjugation of the black race?

    I don't see how the North can be considered the aggressors when the South were the ones that seceded and then attacked the North.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    No... the issue was the southern states being able to exercise the rights they had under the US Constitition. Secession followed a matter of principle.

    Part of all that was slavery, but the -principle- behind it was the rights of states.
    The South did not care about state's rights. They cared about preserving slavery and remaining the dominating force in the government of country.
    Last edited by YamiB.; 04-17-09 at 03:25 PM.
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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by carolinaguy View Post
    I would argue that wanted to be "readmitted" not to prove it was possible or plausable, but becuase the destroyed south needed the northern industries to survive.
    If secession is not legally possible, why was it necessary -- indeed, how was it possible -- to 're-admit' the Confederate states?

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiB. View Post
    If the south seceded due to state's rights why did they complain in their decelerations of secession about the Northern states going against the fugitive slave law?
    Because it violated the right of the people of the southern states to have their property retuned to them.

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    Re: Gov. Perry Backs Resolution Affirming Texas’ Sovereignty Under 10th Amendment

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiB. View Post
    If the south seceded due to state's rights why did they complain in their decelerations of secession about the Northern states going against the fugitive slave law? If it wasn't about slavery why did the same secession documents talk about the issue of slavery so much? If it wasn't about slavery why did Alexander Stephens say that the cornerstone of the Confederacy rested on the subjugation of the black race?

    I don't see how the North can be considered the aggressors when the South were the ones that seceded and then attacked the North.
    Uh, no. Union forces blockaded Confederate ports months before the confederacy seceded. The North had long had a habit of attempting to subjugate the South through economic and policy schisms that were further widened by the slavery issue. However, slavery was not the central issue of the war. Anyone who has studied the war beyond 8th grade is aware of this.

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