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Thread: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

  1. #111
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    OK, first of all, I don't agree -- a person who knowingly, remorselessly, repeatedly engages in acts of evil can fairly be described as an evil person.
    Perhaps, but you'd have to be infinitely familiar with those people to understand their knowledge and their level of remorse. You must also take circumstances into account and put yourself in that persons shoes. For instance, Captain Tibbets dropped a bomb that killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese and he'll go to his deathbed claiming what he did was right.

    Edit: he actually did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Tibbets
    Tibbets expressed no regret regarding the decision to drop the bomb. In a 1975 interview he said: "I'm proud that I was able to start with nothing, plan it, and have it work as perfectly as it did... I sleep clearly every night."[5] In March 2005, he stated, "If you give me the same circumstances,I'd do it again."
    [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Tibbets[/ame]

    As in, the crimes are evil.
    I agree.

    Right from the very first post when you scolded me about how calling them animals "gets us nowhere." What other conclusion can one draw than that you judged my post, my conduct, as wrong?
    It doesn't get us anywhere. Dehumanization is responsible for the worst atrocities of all time.
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 04-15-09 at 04:16 PM.

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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    How could you possibly be sure? Their motivation is money and to them money is good and they are willing to get it at whatever cost. That doesn't make them evil.
    And they want the money to fund their Jihad. And by your standard a man that murders for money is somehow less evil than a man who murders out of anger.

  3. #113
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    You're splitting hairs; I largely said that.

    Then let's go about the question in another way -- the accusation that you're "dehumanizing" someone is saying that you're devaluing that person.

    Where does the special human value come in? In what sense is a human more valuable than other animals? Why is it so heinous to call a human an animal? (Because, of course, there's no question that humans are animals.)
    Humans are a form of animal, but a form never before seen on this planet. A vastly superior form at that. In the brief time we've been on this planet, we've completely colonized the planet, radically reshaped it (not in the physical shape of the planet, but environmentally and such), escaped its gravity, and even scratched at the surface of understanding the base of the universe itself. Our intellect separates us from the herd and allows us to dominate the rest. While many species have varying degrees of intelligence, no species comes close to the level of intelligence and extelligence innately possessed by humans. We are the superior species till a better one comes along.

    I've always likened humans to the mage class of RPGs. Not strong, not fast, not nimble. Nature neglected all other attributes which are found in other animals and focuses almost exclusively on intelligence. One on one against most other animals, the human is screwed. We're rather fragile when compared to much of the rest of the animal kingdom. But we can think and we can create, and because of that we can dominate. We may not win at arm wrestling a bear, but we sure as hell can invent the gun to kill the bear before it gets to that stage.
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  4. #114
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post

    It doesn't get us anywhere. Dehumanization is responsible for the worst atrocities of all time.
    What do you mean by worst atrocities? Using your moral relativism these atrocities were perfectly justifiable. Put yourself in the place of a Hitler, he believed that the Jew was destroying Germany, and he felt that the only way to protect his kin and kith was to exterminate world Jewry, after all who are you to judge his motivations and his actions? Good and evil after all is subjective. Dehuminization maybe responsible for the worst atrocities of all time but moral relativism is what is used to justify them.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 04-15-09 at 04:17 PM.

  5. #115
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    My response is subjective, so you can't dispute it.
    Um...okay. Let me know when you are read to seriously discuss the topic.

  6. #116
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Then there is no evil.
    Exactly. No absolute evil anyway. There is only opinion.

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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by dclxvinoise View Post
    Exactly. No absolute evil anyway. There is only opinion.
    See how easy liberalism is, anything can mean anything you want.
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  8. #118
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    And they want the money to fund their Jihad. And by your standard a man that murders for money is somehow less evil than a man who murders out of anger.
    Actually no. By my standard neither one is evil because evil doesn't exist.

  9. #119
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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    See how easy liberalism is, anything can mean anything you want.
    See how easy partisan hackery is? All you have to do is assign the term "liberal" to something that you don't like.

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    Re: US military mulls attacking Somali pirates' land bases; pirates vow revenge

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Perhaps, but you'd have to be infinitely familiar with those people to understand their knowledge and their level of remorse.
    I would not have to be for it to be so.

    You must also take circumstances into account and put yourself in that persons shoes. For instance, Captain Tibbets dropped a bomb that killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese and he'll go to his deathbed claiming what he did was right.
    And that's not "knowingly, remorselessly, repeatedly engaging in acts of evil," is it?

    It doesn't get us anywhere.
    And there's the judgment.

    Dehumanization is responsible for the worst atrocities of all time.
    Yes, it is, and I have repeatedly said so within the confines of this message board.

    But piracy itself is an atrocity, and has been recognized as such for thousands of years. Likening people who engage in it unto acting like animals is in NO WAY the same as claiming innocent people are literally not people, as was the case with slavery, with Jews (even today), with all sorts of other things.

    Calling someone who preys savagely on innocents an "animal" as a metaphor is NOT a slippery slope.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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