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Thread: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

  1. #61
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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Apples and oranges, Britain and America have different histories and cultures. But if you look at the figures for Britain the gun violence rises with every restriction. Now there are certainly other vfactiors in play, specifically social tension and a rise increased immigration but to simply compare the US and UK is silly if you ignore the stats which relate directly to Britain. Gun violence spiked dramatically in the five years after handguns were banned, it is still quite a bit above the pre-ban levels.

    And anyway even if it hadn't that is no excuse to take away our constitution, historical rights(as set out in the 1689 bill of rights.).
    That's right there are cultural differences. One is that we don't have a law the prevents citizens from owning handguns. We are a nation of gun owners and out Constitution protects our right to have guns.

    Please link those stats so we can determine how far off you actually are.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Lerxst View Post
    As a former cop of many years I am absolutely opposed to gun registration. I was tickled to death when gun laws in my state changed and buyers were no longer required to get a permit to purchase. There are ways of tracking a gun without requiring an owner to report possession of his gun to the authorities. Databases already exist. While it might make some investigations flow more quickly, it's really not worth the trade off. As pointed out in this thread already, gun registration historically leads to gun confiscation (in many cases anyway).

    Knowing who it is that legally owns a gun and isn't committing crime doesn't really mean much to me in an investigation. They guys I'm worrying about don't register their guns and no law requiring them to would matter to them.

    I like the idea of my government not really knowing if I'm armed to the teeth, gives pause to tyranny.
    Gun restriction leads to gun confiscation in OTHER nations.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Factor in the number of guns to that number of deaths and they are remarkably similar.

    If more guns - more deaths, then the rate per gun would be higher where there are more guns.
    I find it very telling that no one wants to post these stats but just want us to believe the claims.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Yeah, it was turn them in, or they'll be confiscated.

    A whole lot of choice they had there.
    Did they get them back when the crisis was over?

  5. #65
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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    First of all this is the USA and our culture and system of government is VASTLY different than ANY of those nations you cite, nor are we living in pre-21st century. Ease of access to information, 24 hour news cycles and the ease of individual and group contact via the web and other cell/sat technology make disarming the American populace completely impossible.

    As for the NRA's propaganda film.

    The first woman was disobeying and arguing with THE POLICE AND BRANDISHED A HANDGUN. It doesn't matter that she is old or wasn't pointing it at her, she had it in her hand and she was telling the police she would not leave her home during a mandatory evacuation because a class 5 hurricane was approaching which devistated her city.

    2nd, the guys in video were in an area that lacked police protection, was known to have looters roaming, where violence had taken place. The cops don't know these guys from adam. As far as they are concerned they could have just stolen those guns. Did the guys get their gun back?

    3rd, since when isn't gods protection enough for a baptist minister? She had her gun and her bible... I wonder which she put her faith in more... Where in the NT did Jesus say keep your sword close to defend yourself? I know, that's irrelevant but I just love to catch xians being honest since it doesn't happen all that often.
    Not to mention that SHE DIDN'T HAVE HER GUN CONFISCATED.

    4th, beyond the fact that we don't know if this guy is truthful but lets assume he is. He said it was mayhem and that the police didn't have control. So they are trying to get control and as I said earlier, they don't know a looter from a guy trying to get his things from his home. Statistically you are more safe if you don't pull a weapon out against a robber. If you give a robber what they want (material crap that's not worth risking your life over) they will leave you alive.

    5th, the guy is showing us the weapons that were confiscated. Meaning, he got them back. See above for the reasons why they were confiscated.
    1, So the government can tell you when to leave your home? Nice, I love when the government protects me... when they shouldn't.

    2, Ever heard the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?".

    3, point?

    4, So, the police don't have control over the citizens.. so they take one of the only ways for their citizens to protect themselves away? And as far as your comment about material possessions, that doesn't matter, it's not you nor I... so your opinion on someone's possessions worth doesn't remotely correlate to this.

    5, Doesn't matter, he was disarmed and left defenseless while there was robbing and looting going on.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Did they get them back when the crisis was over?
    In reference to the state of California, no they did not get their SKSs back that were arbitrarily declared illegal one day... and confiscated.

    You had the choice of selling it to the state for $230, or getting it confiscated anyway and destroyed.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Gun restriction leads to gun confiscation in OTHER nations.
    So, based upon history.. how do we know it won't happen here?
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    I find it very telling that no one wants to post these stats but just want us to believe the claims.
    There is another thread here on DP that has them. I saw them, but I have no intention of looking back for them. You can beleive it or not or you can look up the thread or not -- it doesnt really matter to me.

    In the end, the number of deaths compared to the number of guns is about the same across most of the western nations.

    If more guns = more deaths, then the rate per gun would be higher where there are more guns. This is NOT the case, and so more guns = more gun death is false.

    Of course, if you want just a local example...
    Gun murders in the US are roughly what they were 40 years ago, and yet the number of guns has nearly doubled.
    If more guns = more gun deaths, that shoud lnot be possible.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    There is another thread here on DP that has them. I saw them, but I have no intention of looking back for them. You can beleive it or not or you can look up the thread or not -- it doesnt really matter to me.

    In the end, the number of deaths compared to the number of guns is about the same across most of the western nations.

    If more guns = more deaths, then the rate per gun would be higher where there are more guns. This is NOT the case, and so more guns = more gun death is false.

    Of course, if you want just a local example...
    Gun murders in the US are roughly what they were 40 years ago, and yet the number of guns has nearly doubled.
    If more guns = more gun deaths, that shoud lnot be possible.
    Quite often it's been proven that communities that have a greater population of gun owners have generally had less violent crime.

    But, of course our anti-gunners don't want to acknowledge these facts, they'd rather continue running the emotional rhetoric about how guns kill CHILDREN AND KITTENS!!! THEY'RE EVIL.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Man Killed While Trying to Rob Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    They'd never be able to do it right now.. but how far down the road would their attempt be? How long would it take to restrict gun rights to the point where they can just take them?

    Registration has never prevented crime, nor has it ever really helped all that much in solving crime. And historically it's led to confiscation.

    Last I checked, mass murderers like targeting gun free zones... schools, post offices, federal buildings, etc..etc. Are you lost in the conversation?
    In other words, in your fantasy world of the future.

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