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American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

WillRockwell said:
Piracy is NEVER an honorable act, and ALWAYS punishable by death. Thus has it always been.
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Wrong.

First off there is no death penalty for piracy today in the west.

Secondly even back in the hay day of piracy, immortalized by Hollywood movies, at first pirates were not "executed" always. It was only later when piracy was getting real bad, that most nations went over to the principle of execution without any real trial... that is if it was not their own pirates of course :).
 
GySgt said:
Now, to enforce the lesson, the Navy should go on a two week hunting spress and sink anything that looks like a pirate vessel. And for good measure, we should bomb some locations in there ports.
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Yea bomb those ports, kill hundreds of innocent neutral civilians, right on!!

Gunny, the beacon of diplomacy!

Paul
 
Arch Enemy said:
Thank ****ng God.

Glad this ordeal ended as it should have. No mercy for the Pirates. The 4th Pirate will be a nice way to get some information from, etc. etc.
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Nothing to do with God my friend. All to do with the professionalism of the guys on the scene.

Paul
 
gunner said:
Yea bomb those ports, kill hundreds of innocent neutral civilians, right on!!

Gunny, the beacon of diplomacy!

Paul
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Yea it did the US a load of good when it did that in Lebanon..
 
PeteEU said:
Wrong.

First off there is no death penalty for piracy today in the west.

Secondly even back in the hay day of piracy, immortalized by Hollywood movies, at first pirates were not "executed" always. It was only later when piracy was getting real bad, that most nations went over to the principle of execution without any real trial... that is if it was not their own pirates of course :).
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In English admiralty law, piracy was defined as petit treason during the medieval period, and offenders were accordingly liable to be drawn and quartered on conviction. Piracy was redefined as a felony during the reign of Henry VIII. In either case, piracy cases were cognizable in the courts of the Lord High Admiral. English admiralty vice-admiralty judges emphasized that "neither Faith nor Oath is to be kept" with pirates; i.e. contracts with pirates and oaths sworn to them were not legally binding. Pirates were legally subject to summary execution by their captors if captured in battle.
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Despite the abhorrence of many countries to capital punishment, execution for piracy seems like a logical and efficient deterrent to the problem. These are not honorable men. They currently hold 250 hostages, and are terrorizing not only commercial shipping but cruise ships and private yachts. Imprisonment in a Western facility would seem like paradise to them. I say scare the crap out of them with a few well timed raids, showing no mercy, until they all come to the decision that continued piracy has no advantage.
 
WillRockwell said:
Despite the abhorrence of many countries to capital punishment, execution for piracy seems like a logical and efficient deterrent to the problem. These are not honorable men. They currently hold 250 hostages, and are terrorizing not only commercial shipping but cruise ships and private yachts. Imprisonment in a Western facility would seem like paradise to them. I say scare the crap out of them with a few well timed raids, showing no mercy, until they all come to the decision that continued piracy has no advantage.
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I agree in principle, however in the 21st century we should not in my opinion resolve to the legal and punishment systems of the 17th century.. after all we are the ones who are suppose to have evolved. And throwing them in a western prison will not be "heaven".. after all these pirates live in big mansions and drive expensive cars (relatively speaking).

What should be done, is pretty simple. Make the elders of the villages go against the piracy and then the piracy will fall. Take away the safe haven and backing of the pirates by the locals. Going in guns blazing, killing anything that moves and is connected to the pirates, will only make the situation far far far worse.
 
U.S. Navy rescues captain, kills Somali pirates

U.S. Navy rescues captain, kills Somali pirates

U.S. Navy rescues captain, kills Somali pirates | U.S. | Reuters


"To achieve that goal, we must continue to work with our partners to prevent future attacks, be prepared to interdict acts of piracy and ensure that those who commit acts of piracy are held accountable for their crimes," he said in a statement.

The White House issued a time line that showed Obama received frequent updates on the crisis and on Friday and Saturday gave the Pentagon policy guidance authorities to allow U.S. forces to take emergency actions.

Somali pirates were quick to vow revenge over the shooting of their comrades, as well as a French military assault to rescue a yacht on Friday.

"The French and the Americans will regret starting this killing. We do not kill, but take only ransom. We shall do something to anyone we see as French or American from now," Hussein, a pirate, told Reuters by satellite phone.
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Interdiction? " be prepared to interdict acts of piracy"? I hope this is not the response that is the future here?

Read this response, Obama sees us in a criminal interdiction mode, they now see us as a war.....

Obama made the right call authorizing the commander discretion to act. if his words are true here, he is failing already on phase two....


That said, I will change my mind on this, if he acts more than what he hints at here.


What say you. should we only conduct "interdiction" operations to corral "criminals" or should there be a more definitive action to break the will of this enemy?
 
Lerxst said:
Outstanding news! Looks like the U.S. and the French are done messing around with these thugs.
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From the Article Obama:


""To achieve that goal, we must continue to work with our partners to prevent future attacks, be prepared to interdict acts of piracy and ensure that those who commit acts of piracy are held accountable for their crimes," he said in a statement."



"prevent" "interdict" "held accountable for crimes", meanwhile they are stating that we will pay.


i think it is a mistake to treat this as criminal activity and not acts of war/terrorism.
 
Lerxst said:
I am wondering if all the "Obama can't make a decision" crowd who criticized him over "taking too long to do something" are going to actually give Obama the credit for this rescue....I mean since they were so quick to blame him for not ordering a rescue.
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he did take too long, however, good job to him. the NAVY, the SEALS etc for this action.
 
GySgt said:
Worked well all around....

1) America did not give in to the ransom.

2) U.S. ships did not allow other pirates to approach the scene for support.

3) The Navy was ready for any opportunity and the Captain was freed.

4) Pirates were killed.

5) And the Pirate brood was thoroughly embarrased internationally.


The next time a pirate seeks out a ship, he will be very careful to acknowledge the flag. The lesson here is that it is too much of a hastle to mess with an Americn ship. This is exactly how you deter future problems. Now, to enforce the lesson, the Navy should go on a two week hunting spress and sink anything that looks like a pirate vessel. And for good measure, we should bomb some locations in there ports.
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If we do not do this, the Pirates, may become more violent the next time they come across an American or French vessel.
 
PeteEU said:
What should be done, is pretty simple. Make the elders of the villages go against the piracy and then the piracy will fall. Take away the safe haven and backing of the pirates by the locals. Going in guns blazing, killing anything that moves and is connected to the pirates, will only make the situation far far far worse.
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Very well said Pete, If the west had the elders and wisemen of the clans on side, piracy would fall.
Every member of those pirates belong to a clan headed by one elder, they defer to them.
 
Laila said:
Very well said Pete, If the west had the elders and wisemen of the clans on side, piracy would fall.
Every member of those pirates belong to a clan headed by one elder, they defer to them.
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Then sit those elders down and ask them how many funerals they wish to attend before their own. Also ask them how many of their own children they wish to bury.

Old men generally take issue with the idea of their sons dying before them.
 
celticlord said:
Then sit those elders down and ask them how many funerals they wish to attend before their own. Also ask them how many of their own children they wish to bury.

Old men generally take issue with the idea of their sons dying before them.
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:shock:

You can't threaten the elders! Wars have started over less in Somalia.

The elders traditionally have like a dozen wives and like a gazillion kids [not an accurate number i admit but close enough]
 
Laila said:
:shock:

You can't threaten the elders! Wars have started over less in Somalia.

The elders traditionally have like a dozen wives and like a gazillion kids [not an accurate number i admit but close enough]
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Of course I can threaten the elders. In fact, they need to be threatened. They are, after all, the ones getting the richest off piracy. As for starting a war....they've declared war on international shipping, in case you haven't noticed. The "war" is already started. What we need to do is finish that war.

Can't threaten the elders? Nonsense. They can be threatened. They need to be threatened. Find a threat that makes their blood run cold and use it.
 
celticlord said:
Of course I can threaten the elders. In fact, they need to be threatened. They are, after all, the ones getting the richest off piracy. As for starting a war....they've declared war on international shipping, in case you haven't noticed. The "war" is already started. What we need to do is finish that war.

Can't threaten the elders? Nonsense. They can be threatened. They need to be threatened. Find a threat that makes their blood run cold and use it.
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Tell em you'll set the dogs on em. That'll make the blood of any Muslim run cold.
 
BulletWounD said:
Tell em you'll set the dogs on em. That'll make the blood of any Muslim run cold.
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I just thought of a community service project for Michael Vick.....:mrgreen:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
-- i think it is a mistake to treat this as criminal activity and not acts of war/terrorism.
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
If we do not do this, the Pirates, may become more violent the next time --
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Piracy is a crime, these guys are pirates not terrorists. Labeling them as such drives them into the arms of real terrorists.

Bombing Somali ports and killing innocents as GySgt posted earlier is a big mistake too for a legitimate Govt to make. Taking decisive and final action as the US took today nips the threat in the bud.

Just like to add my congrats to the US and to Obama for a successful mission. Personally surprised to see so many grudging acknowledgments for success from so many US posters too. :confused:
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Piracy is a crime, these guys are pirates not terrorists. Labeling them as such drives them into the arms of real terrorists.
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Seems to me they're already there. Terrorists do it for ideology, pirates do it for profit. It's the doing that needs to be stopped, whatever the motivation. Pirate, terrorist, the distinction is irrelevant. They have abandoned civilized society and are no longer deserving of civilized treatment.

Infinite Chaos said:
Bombing Somali ports and killing innocents as GySgt posted earlier is a big mistake too for a legitimate Govt to make. Taking decisive and final action as the US took today nips the threat in the bud.
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The rescue was decisive. It was anything but final. Piracy has not been diminished or even discouraged by this action. This one action is a good first step, but it will be meaningless as deterrence if not followed up with other actions.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Piracy is a crime, these guys are pirates not terrorists.
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These people are armed robbers.
They aren't just affecting a bank, but commerce and safety on a critical transport route.
They're vermin and need to be taken care of.

Labeling them as such (terrorists) drives them into the arms of real terrorists.
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LOL.
Yeah, calling these bandits "terrorists" will be the tipping point.
That's going to really, really piss them off.
Maybe Obama will apologize to them on behalf of the nation of "cowards" and explain to them that we are the evil ones, and will repent for our sins.

At what accumulation of hijacking on the sea do we begin to call it "terrorism"?

Six decades of appeasement in the ME brought us the terror mess we now have to exterminate.
Letting vermin grow has its costs.
Ask Chamberlain.

Bombing Somali ports and killing innocents as GySgt posted earlier is a big mistake too for a legitimate Govt to make. Taking decisive and final action as the US took today nips the threat in the bud.
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Who says we are targeting innocents?
Our bombs are pretty accurate and getting intel for specific targets isn't as difficult as say in Iraq when Saddam was the henchman, or North Korea.

I believe they should learn that messing with America has its costs.
Touch our vessels and you won't be sleeping well, and maybe you'll be sleeping permanently.

.
 
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Infinite Chaos said:
Piracy is a crime, these guys are pirates not terrorists. Labeling them as such drives them into the arms of real terrorists.
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Nonsense. This is an act of terrorism. Not "islamic" terrorism per say, but terrorism of opportunity. To call it a criminal activity is going to get Americans killed.

Bombing Somali ports and killing innocents as GySgt posted earlier is a big mistake too for a legitimate Govt to make. Taking decisive and final action as the US took today nips the threat in the bud.
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You are wrong, all it does is tell the pirates they must act quicker and be more ruthless.

Bombing the mansions and the means to commit these acts of barbarism is the action needed to quell piracy.,


Just like to add my congrats to the US and to Obama for a successful mission. Personally surprised to see so many grudging acknowledgments for success from so many US posters too. :confused:
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No one is "grudgingly" acknowledging. That spin is on the lefts side.
 
celticlord said:
Seems to me they're already there.
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I'm talking real terrorist groups like Al-Q or financing from states like Iran. So far the pirates seem to be acting alone.

celticlord said:
-- The rescue was decisive. It was anything but final.
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I meant "Final" as in the immediate perps are dead or captured.

celticlord said:
This one action is a good first step, but it will be meaningless as deterrence if not followed up with other actions.
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To some point that's agreed, the pirates will for a time try and avoid capturing any US ships though.
 
zimmer said:
These people are armed robbers.
They aren't just affecting a bank, but commerce and safety on a critical transport route.
They're vermin and need to be taken care of.
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No disagreement there.

zimmer said:
LOL.
Yeah, calling these bandits "terrorists" will be the tipping point.
That's going to really, really piss them off.
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Shall we wait and see?

zimmer said:
Maybe Obama will apologize to them on behalf of the nation of "cowards" and explain to them that we are the evil ones, and will repent for our sins.
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First off he didn't - he apparently approved lethal force if necessary. You may have missed that event. :lol:

zimmer said:
At what accumulation of hijacking on the sea do we begin to call it "terrorism"?
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When the modus operandi has the hallmarks of terrorism. Not before.

zimmer said:
Six decades of appeasement in the ME brought us the terror mess we now have to exterminate.
Letting vermin grow has its costs.
Ask Chamberlain.
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Relevance?

zimmer said:
Who says we are targeting innocents?.
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[sigh]Go back in the thread and read GySgts post. He didn't say anyone is targeting innocents - he spoke of one form of next step which I am disagreeing with[/sigh]
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Nonsense. This is an act of terrorism. Not "islamic" terrorism per say, but terrorism of opportunity. To call it a criminal activity is going to get Americans killed.
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Sorry but it's still hallmark illegal activity and robbery with hostage taking. They are like armed bank-robbers but at sea.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
-- You are wrong, all it does is tell the pirates they must act quicker and be more ruthless.
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I doubt that very much - I read the report you quoted from Reuters saying they were upping the stakes now some of them had been killed but decisive action like the US carried out today (and maybe one or two more examples if there are any more ships taken) will start to deter them.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Bombing the mansions --
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It's Somalia... very much doubt there are any mansions around.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
-- No one is "grudgingly" acknowledging. That spin is on the lefts side.
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You forget, I'm not US-right or US-left as I'm not US anything. "Grudging" is how it reads to a neutral.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Sorry but it's still hallmark illegal activity and robbery with hostage taking. They are like armed bank-robbers but at sea.
Taking hostages and ransoming them is a form of terrorism. Not classic "islamic terrorism" but "terrorism" even by thier own agenda. Supposedly this is because we pollute thier waters or something.





I doubt that very much - I read the report you quoted from Reuters saying they were upping the stakes now some of them had been killed but decisive action like the US carried out today (and maybe one or two more examples if there are any more ships taken) will start to deter them.
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"will"? isn't that a bit speculative.


It's Somalia... very much doubt there are any mansions around.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...001/Somali-pirate-port-becomes-boom-town.html


Pirates are building mansions, big cars, etc.


You forget, I'm not US-right or US-left as I'm not US anything. "Grudging" is how it reads to a neutral.
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Sorry, I don't think "neutral" is right either. Though I know you are more liberty oriented. I simply think you are overestimating the impact "interdiction" will have here.
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