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Thread: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

  1. #171
    Androgyne
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Why do you so desperately troll and bait my posts? Did you have a coherent point to make, or feel compelled to wallow in abject denial of the arguments being made and fabricate your own version of reality?
    Again, please stop trying to derail the thread with personal attacks. If you can't address my points without them feel free to refrain from addressing me at all. Thanks.

    They have a Government, they are a member of the UN and their Government does indeed have structure. The notion that they are in a state of anarchy requires the willing suspension of disbelief and a vacuum of reality or the facts:
    I never said that they were in a state of anarchy, I just thought it was silly that your proof of this was that they had a website. I still eagerly await proof that the Somali government was well aware of the practices of these pirates and gave them their blessing as you have asserted many times thus far without proof.

    United Nations member states - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Executive branch: chief of state: Transitional Federal President Sheikh SHARIF Sheikh Ahmed (since 31 January 2009); note - a transitional governing entity with a five-year mandate, known as the Transitional Federal Institutions (TFIs), was established in October 2004; the TFIs relocated to Somalia in June 2004

    Constitution: 25 August 1979, presidential approval 23 September 1979
    note: the formation of transitional governing institutions, known as the Transitional Federal Government, is currently ongoing

    head of government: Prime Minister Omar Abdirashid Ali SHARMARKE (since 13 February 2009)

    cabinet: Cabinet appointed by the prime minister and approved by the Transitional Federal Assembly

    election results: Sheikh SHARIF Sheikh Ahmed was elected president by the expanded Transitional Federal Assembly in Djibouti

    Legislative branch: unicameral National Assembly

    note: unicameral Transitional Federal Assembly (TFA) (550 seats; 475 members appointed according to the 4.5 clan formula, with the remaining 75 seats reserved for civil society and business persons)

    Judicial branch: following the breakdown of the central government, most regions have reverted to local forms of conflict resolution, either secular, traditional Somali customary law, or Sharia (Islamic) law with a provision for appeal of all sentences

    International organization participation: ACP, AfDB, AFESD, AMF, AU, CAEU, FAO, G-77, IBRD, ICAO, ICRM, IDA, IDB, IFAD, IFC, IFRCS, IGAD, ILO, IMF, IMO, Interpol, IOC, IOM, IPU, ITSO, ITU, LAS, NAM, OIC, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNHCR, UNIDO, UPU, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/so.html
    What exactly is copying and pasting this wikipedia article supposed to prove?

    So please, stop this childish game you are playing and either make a point, or allow the posters I am debating to respond to my arguments.
    Again, please stop trying to derail the thread with personal attacks. How am I not allowing the posters you are debating to respond to your arguments?

    My argument is clear: the reasons the world body and the US administration refuses to acknowledge the terrorism being conducted from the shores of Somalia is because they do not want to deal with the real problem; the nation as a whole and the rogue regime running it. They do this by claiming these are mere acts of piracy which relieves them from actively dealing with the root cause and conveniently avoids dealing with the Somali problem.
    I am well aware of your argument. What I want is proof not assumptions.

    It would be more honest of you if you just stated you think I am full of **** instead of pretending you have a coherent counter-point.
    I wouldn't do that because I, unlike you, am not going to resort to personal attacks because it adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.

    Run along now and troll and bait someone else’s posts. Your trite juvenile attempts are tiring and typical of your desperate attempts to avoid any substance.
    More personal attacks. Why are you so unwilling to address the topic instead of attacking me? Have you gotten it out of your system yet? Are you ready to provide proof of your assertions and therefore address the topic at hand?
    Last edited by Dr_Patrick; 04-13-09 at 03:35 PM.

  2. #172
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    So you want to compare a case of road rage to attacking international shipping with RPGs and AK-47's with the blessing of their own nation by terrorists?

    It begs the question; you're kidding me right? The only thing ludicrous here are your rediculous analogies and desperate denial.
    Again, try reading please. Seriously, it will take you a long way if you just read and comprehend what is being done. You reduced everything to an individual scale. If someone held a .45 to your head, you'd be scared. You likened that to terrorism. I said that's stupid because there is a scale issue, terrorism isn't an individual or even small group phenomenon. It's an aggregate.

    According to YOU, what I said about road rage is true. You'd have to label the road rage guy as a terrorist because he would have caused some people fear. A kid with a 2 L bottle, some drano, and aluminum foil you'd have to label a terrorist because he'd sure as hell scare some people. And that use of fear is what defines terrorist, right?

    WRONG! Terrorism is a scale thing, terrorism includes using fear over an entire populace to force your whim, most usually directed against a government. You hold a people hostage and try to force a government to adopt rules or give into demands, that's the typical face of terrorism. It can take on many different forms, but I reserve the use of terrorist for large scale terror operations. These pirates where not trying to use fear to get their way. Sure, it's scary being held hostage, I'm not going to say it's not. But that's not an act of terrorism. The pirates were not trying to use that fear to get their way, they were trying to trade life for money, it was more commodity based than anything else.

    No way shape or form where those pirates terrorists. Pirates could be terrorists I suppose, but they'd have to act well more cohesively in order to be able to affect the scale in which they could be properly deemed terrorist. I don't see that happening with this group.

    Again, according to you mugger=terrorist. According to me mugger=individual crime.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #173
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    Without dealing with the ROOT cause of this terrorism of international shipping off the coast of Somalia, the Somali Government, how do you think these "liberals" are going to eliminate the threat of "piracy?"

    This should be good for a few additional laughs.

    Let me type this in caps so even you can understand it
    THERE IS NO SOMALI GOVERNMENT

  4. #174
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Now thats my kind of negotiation.........
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU"]YouTube - fifth element-negotiation[/ame]

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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Again, try reading please. Seriously, it will take you a long way if you just read and comprehend what is being done. You reduced everything to an individual scale. If someone held a .45 to your head, you'd be scared. You likened that to terrorism. I said that's stupid because there is a scale issue, terrorism isn't an individual or even small group phenomenon. It's an aggregate.

    According to YOU, what I said about road rage is true. You'd have to label the road rage guy as a terrorist because he would have caused some people fear. A kid with a 2 L bottle, some drano, and aluminum foil you'd have to label a terrorist because he'd sure as hell scare some people. And that use of fear is what defines terrorist, right?

    WRONG! Terrorism is a scale thing, terrorism includes using fear over an entire populace to force your whim, most usually directed against a government. You hold a people hostage and try to force a government to adopt rules or give into demands, that's the typical face of terrorism. It can take on many different forms, but I reserve the use of terrorist for large scale terror operations. These pirates where not trying to use fear to get their way. Sure, it's scary being held hostage, I'm not going to say it's not. But that's not an act of terrorism. The pirates were not trying to use that fear to get their way, they were trying to trade life for money, it was more commodity based than anything else.

    No way shape or form where those pirates terrorists. Pirates could be terrorists I suppose, but they'd have to act well more cohesively in order to be able to affect the scale in which they could be properly deemed terrorist. I don't see that happening with this group.

    Again, according to you mugger=terrorist. According to me mugger=individual crime.
    ....because you say so. Your entire premise requires re-defining terrorism to fit your myopic version of what the definition of terrorism is and requires you to ignore the point of my argument.

    These acts are nothing more than terrorist acts and the world’s efforts to claim they are "pirates" is being used to avoid dealing with the rogue regime of Somalia.

    Desperately comparing them to robbers or road rage is trite, simplistic and so obviously absurd as to be hysterical.

    Carry on; your desperate desire to avoid the substance of my arguments and defend the terrorist actions of Somali citizens and their rogue regime has been noted.

  6. #176
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    Let me type this in caps so even you can understand it
    THERE IS NO SOMALI GOVERNMENT
    But there is a Somali Government and all the desperate denial and hyperbole doesn't make your nonsensical desperate arguments to the contrary any more coherent.

  7. #177
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Your desperate attempt to label everything as terrorism is plain for many to see here. I addressed all your "substance". You NEVER addressed anything I wrote. All you did was insult and dismiss and dodge. That's it. Nothing more. Piss poor "debating" at best. You couldn't even combat the FACT that the pirates weren't using fear to get their way, they were holding a hostage. While the hostage would rightfully be terrified, it can't be said to be an act of terrorism as the terror was never a tool for the job.

    But whatever, keep dismissing and dodging and writing nothing.

    Though you are right on your argument being hysterics.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Your desperate attempt to label everything as terrorism is plain for many to see here. I addressed all your "substance". You NEVER addressed anything I wrote. All you did was insult and dismiss and dodge. That's it. Nothing more. Piss poor "debating" at best. You couldn't even combat the FACT that the pirates weren't using fear to get their way, they were holding a hostage. While the hostage would rightfully be terrified, it can't be said to be an act of terrorism as the terror was never a tool for the job.

    But whatever, keep dismissing and dodging and writing nothing.

    Though you are right on your argument being hysterics.
    Can we all agree its (pirating) is an act worthy of having your life taken from you?

  9. #179
    Androgyne
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    Can we all agree its (pirating) is an act worthy of having your life taken from you?
    Absolutely. And cheers to the US Navy for kicking total ass as always.

  10. #180
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    Re: American captain rescued, pirates killed, U.S. official says

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    Can we all agree its (pirating) is an act worthy of having your life taken from you?
    Mostly I would agree. What these pirates did for sure. All I'm saying is that they weren't terrorists, not that they didn't get what was coming to them. Been better if you could resolve it without loss of life, but they directly threatened the life of the captain and that's that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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