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Thread: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

  1. #31
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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by StandUpChuck View Post
    I've said it before, the President is a symbol. I don't expect him to start dropping bombs, but I do expect as a matter of public persona, the American leader to at least sit his ass in front of a camera for 30 seconds and say targetting American ships will not be tolerated. Period. He needs to lead, dammit. Sometimes all leadership has to be is just speaking to the nation and/or the world with a simple platitude. We're not a nation of p*ssies.

    eta: I actually like Hillary Clinton (it took a while, but I like her), but that video of her laughing about pirating is gross. It's not friggen funny at this point.
    Pirates put Obama in 21st-century bind - Politics- msnbc.com

    Thursday's decision to turn to FBI hostage negotiators showed Obama reaching for all of his limited options in the high-seas hostage drama. Negotiators in the United States were communicating with the pirates through a Navy destroyer that shadowed the small lifeboat where four pirates held American cargo ship captain Richard Phillips.

    The president wasn't saying a word about the situation in public, though he dispatched aides to reassure the nation that their government was pressing to free Phillips.
    .....just saying. If he dropped a few boots on the ship we'd see you complaining about Obama being a warmonger.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    What the hell do you want him to say? Should he go on tv and make retarded threats? Should he just offer up some empty meaningless platitudes to appease people? Or should he just start bombing the crap out of these people?

    Personally I hope he comes out and says we need to nation build in Somalia. Continue our efforts in supporting their new government so the government becomes strong enough to start policing their own. In the meantime maintain a heavy naval presence on the horn. That's what he should say, what we should do, but also what folks don't seem to want to hear so he's probably playing his cards right by keeping quiet.
    He needs to articulate the following:
    1. Targeting/Kidnapping/Assaulting US citizens will not stand.
    2. The rights of ships to freely navigate the waters off Somalia will be respected.
    3. The US will respond to piracy militarily. Diplomacy is not an option.
    4. No ransom will be paid to any pirate for any reason.
    5. Any Somali captured while engaged in an act of piracy will be executed.
    6. Foreign aid to Somalia is suspended until the pirate menace is ended.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    "If the U.N. gives approval to fight pirates on land, that will only lead to death of innocent Somalis. They cannot differentiate us from ordinary Somalis, we dress alike. Piracy will not stop unless we get a government."
    Absolutely correct.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    "If the U.N. gives approval to fight pirates on land, that will only lead to death of innocent Somalis. They cannot differentiate us from ordinary Somalis, we dress alike. Piracy will not stop unless we get a government."
    Absolutely correct.
    Only so far.

    Governments are not gifted from without. They are created by a people from within.

    If the Somalis want a government, they need to get about forming one. Waiting for someone else to build it for them is stupid, silly, and suicidal.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Absolutely correct.
    They had a chance in 91, they had many to chances since then......

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    He needs to articulate the following:
    1. Targeting/Kidnapping/Assaulting US citizens will not stand.
    1. Except it's happening right now and we've been unsuccessful in doing anything about it. So empty platitude if Obama were to state it.

    2. The rights of ships to freely navigate the waters off Somalia will be respected.
    bwahahahahaha

    Or what?

    When will it be respected. At this point it's ridiculously clear that not only is it not respected it's been hindered and we haven't a clue what to do about it.

  7. The US will respond to piracy militarily. Diplomacy is not an option.
  8. No ransom will be paid to any pirate for any reason.
  9. Any Somali captured while engaged in an act of piracy will be executed.
  10. Foreign aid to Somalia is suspended until the pirate menace is ended.
Foreign aid hasn't done squat to help Somalia. The anarchy is what needs to be dealt with. We need to support the new government and help them bring stability to the region. We need to support them in bringing 20 years of anarchy under control and asserting some law and order. The pirates don't give a crap if we withdrawal foreign aid. They are collecting ransoms and doing better now than they ever did with aid! That's the whole point.

As far as militarily I think it would be disastrous for the government to start blowing the pirates along with their hostages out of the water. Then we loose the cargo, the ships, and the hostages.
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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Except it's happening right now and we've been unsuccessful in doing anything about it. So empty platitude if Obama were to state it.
    Perhaps if he says it...but that says more about the man than the policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    bwahahahahaha

    Or what?

    When will it be respected. At this point it's ridiculously clear that not only is it not respected it's been hindered and we haven't a clue what to do about it.
    Expect military response: Guns, bombs, missiles, napalm, and other fun ways for Somalis to die screaming in agony.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Foreign aid hasn't done squat to help Somalia. The anarchy is what needs to be dealt with. We need to support the new government and help them bring stability to the region. We need to support them in bringing 20 years of anarchy under control and asserting some law and order. The pirates don't give a crap if we withdrawal foreign aid. They are collecting ransoms and doing better now than they ever did with aid! That's the whole point.
    Also the point for executing pirates. Dead men don't get to keep the money.

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    As far as militarily I think it would be disastrous for the government to start blowing the pirates along with their hostages out of the water. Then we loose the cargo, the ships, and the hostages.
    That's why it's a job for the SEAL teams, Delta Force, Marines, and other elite troops; develop melee tactics for retaking a ship and put them to use.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post

    That's why it's a job for the SEAL teams, Delta Force, Marines, and other elite troops; develop melee tactics for retaking a ship and put them to use.
    If that's the direction Obama was considering taking I wouldn't expect to see him on TV discussing it, would you?

    Hopefully if they use such tactics they are successful and don't become the basis for another blockbuster movie.

    But yeah, why in the world would you want him going on tv to announce he's going to send in some special forces for melee tactics?

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    If the Somalis want a government, they need to get about forming one. Waiting for someone else to build it for them is stupid, silly, and suicidal.
    Excuse me?
    Somalis had a Government. One they chose for themselves
    They had a Islamic Government who controlled the country and had the support of the people.

    US and Ethiopia hated it and removed it for no reason other than their own selfish reasons - Allowing pirates to emerge again.
    Last edited by Laila; 04-11-09 at 07:04 PM.


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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    If that's the direction Obama was considering taking I wouldn't expect to see him on TV discussing it, would you?

    Hopefully if they use such tactics they are successful and don't become the basis for another blockbuster movie.

    But yeah, why in the world would you want him going on tv to announce he's going to send in some special forces for melee tactics?
    Simple. Give a man something to be alert for and on the lookout against and he won't do a whole lot of things like sleeping.

    Knowing the what but not the when is a great way to mess with someone's head.

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