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Thread: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    I am not trying to play the blame game, but do we know these are Pirates for sure, or could they plausibly be some form of Privateers?

    This is where I draw the line. Time for negotiations is over, I want to see the term "pirate" erased from Somalia's dialect, immediately.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    I am not trying to play the blame game, but do we know these are Pirates for sure, or could they plausibly be some form of Privateers?

    This is where I draw the line. Time for negotiations is over, I want to see the term "pirate" erased from Somalia's dialect, immediately.
    The Somalians for the most part love the pirates. They are heroes. They essentially have brought livelihood to communities that were dying while the world looked on apathetically and took advantage of their lack of a government.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    The Somalians for the most part love the pirates. They are heroes. They essentially have brought livelihood to communities that were dying while the world looked on apathetically and took advantage of their lack of a government.
    So I'd say they're Privateers then.
    "I do not underestimate the ability of fanatical groups of terrorists to kill and destroy, but they do not threaten the life of the nation. Whether we would survive Hitler hung in the balance, but there is no doubt that we shall survive al-Qa'ida." -- Lord Hoffmann

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Well at this point I can't imagine that the pirates will be successful for much longer. Ships have to be free to travel around the African Horn. So something will be done. I'm sure it will be messy, hurt many innocents, and be an all out PR mess. It's an all around crap situation. I admire their spirit. I don't condone piracy and I know all this will come to a bad end eventually but I admire their spirit and am somewhat sympathetic to their cause and history.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Enemy View Post
    So I'd say they're Privateers then.
    That would make the problem easier to handle. Privateers are pirates who operate with the sanction of a government.

    If these pirates are privateers, they are operating with the sanction of the Somali government, such as it is; that said government would endorse and encourage an ongoing threat to international shipping is justification for war, invasion, regime change, and either engaging in some major nation building or partitioning Somalia in whatever way works to establish a peaceful and stable solution.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The "Islamic thugs" hunted the pirates on land when they were in power. It is "unislamic" to be a pirate. On top of that, those that have visited the "pirate villages" have found "un-Islamic" things like expensive cars, big mansions and other "western goods" that were pretty much banned under the "Islamic thugs" that ruled the country a few years ago.

    So yes the chance that the "Islamic thugs" have resorted to piracy is pretty slim.

    But I guess it depends what you mean by Islamic thugs.
    I will retract the phrase "Islamic thugs" since I misunderstood the groups involved and couldn't find any direct ties to Islamic militants but to believe the two are not connected is something else.


    The Associated Press: Officials: Pirates, terrorists not linked directly

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well at this point I can't imagine that the pirates will be successful for much longer. Ships have to be free to travel around the African Horn. So something will be done. I'm sure it will be messy, hurt many innocents, and be an all out PR mess. It's an all around crap situation. I admire their spirit. I don't condone piracy and I know all this will come to a bad end eventually but I admire their spirit and am somewhat sympathetic to their cause and history.
    Firing RPG's at a ship, holding its crews at gun point for weeks at a time is something to admire?

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    It is "unislamic" to be a pirate.
    Some have said it is "un-Islamic" to be a terrorist as well...so it seems there are a few loopholes.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by talloulou View Post
    Well at this point I can't imagine that the pirates will be successful for much longer. Ships have to be free to travel around the African Horn. So something will be done. I'm sure it will be messy, hurt many innocents, and be an all out PR mess. It's an all around crap situation. I admire their spirit. I don't condone piracy and I know all this will come to a bad end eventually but I admire their spirit and am somewhat sympathetic to their cause and history.
    Cause? What cause? Since when did money become a cause?

    They want to score quick cash. There is nothing noble, noteworthy, or admirable in what they do. They have forfeited any expectation of respect, charity, sympathy, or good will of any kind.

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    Re: Pirates seize 10 Italians in U.S.-owned tugboat

    Quote Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
    Firing RPG's at a ship, holding its crews at gun point for weeks at a time is something to admire?
    Well when the alternative is starving to death in dying fishing villages, relying on foreign aid for food, and feeling angry about why there's no fish and no stable government I say yeah. Their spirit is admirable. They have little options and the fact that they've been successful with this pirate business, creating boomtowns even, is rather awe inspiring. It's not as if these folks haven't appealed to the UN about their over fished waters and toxic dumping in their sees as well as a lack of any government to control what they see as "their" waters and livelihood. They could just sit around powerless with their thumbs up their collective asses relying solely on the foreign food aid. Instead they've gotten pissed, risen up, and raised holy hell on the high seas. So yes, it is a bit hard not to root for them. It is impossible for me to read about these pirates and not have some degree of awe and respect for their refusal to just roll over and play dead. Desperate peoples and desperate times call for desperate measures. Think about it. What are a young Somalian man's options? Fishing is no longer an adequate means of survival and there is virtually nothing else to do. I have little doubt were I in their place I'd either be a pirate or marry one. Piracy is the only avenue which has gotten many of those people not only a means of survival but an actual taste of the high life to boot.
    Last edited by talloulou; 04-11-09 at 05:43 PM.

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