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US Navy surrounds pirates as French commandos storm in

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Why?

Go in, kick ass. That's what needs doing. We shouldn't play their game. We should simply start teaching terrorists, and now "pirates" that the price they pay is death, pure and simple.

Too bad if some of the hostages get harmed before the criminals learn the lesson properly, but in the long run it'll improve the situation enormously.

Grow some balls, people.
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They are not terrorists, they are pirates. Get it right please.

What game? Jeez. It's not Al Qaeda you know.

What lessons? Let me make this very clear because some do not seem to understand the main problem.
There is nothing Americans can do to Somalis that Somalis have not already done to themselves.
For a country where anarchy and death has been a norm, it is not a deterrant.
Especially seeing pirates face hangings, stonings and whippings. What can US do to scare them? Very little.


Welll .... just came back from a holiday in Somaliland and i heard of no pirating until i stepped foot back in UK. Our media must suck.
Well, whatever "ass kicking" the US Army wants to do. Keep it kindly away from North of Somalia. I like my country tyvm and would like to go back to how i left it o_O
 
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rudedog said:
Spoken like the true liberal you are.

I guess if someone came in your house and robbed and ass raped you,you'd give them a ride home, and buy them a milkshake, and say thank you.

Then you'd call the government and want some free stuff for your suffering.

And people wonder what happened to our country.
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So you'd rather blow them all to hell, including the hostage, then find a peaceful solution where the pirates don't get a damn thing except to extricate themselves from the situation into which they've gotten themselves.

Do you feel the same way when the criminals are white Americans? Do you think the FBI needs hostage negotiators at all, or does the entire premise of that career get your panties in a bunch? :confused:
 
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Laila said:
What lessons? Let me make this very clear because some do not seem to understand the main problem.
There is nothing Americans can do to Somalis that Somalis have not already done to themselves.
For a country where anarchy and death has been a norm, it is not a deterrant.
Especially seeing pirates face hangings, stonings and whippings. What can US do to scare them? Very little.
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Exactly. Anyone who thinks that blowing up a little boat full of pirates (including the hostage) is going to deter future pirate attacks is just kidding themselves. For one thing, I doubt every pirate boat on the Somali coast is tuned into CNN. For another thing, the rewards simply outweigh the risks.

IMO what really needs to happen is a constant US Navy presence on the Somali coast. As long as there is no rule of law, there will be pirates there.
 
Kandahar said:
Exactly. Anyone who thinks that blowing up a little boat full of pirates (including the hostage) is going to deter future pirate attacks is just kidding themselves. For one thing, I doubt every pirate boat on the Somali coast is tuned into CNN. For another thing, the rewards simply outweigh the risks.

IMO what really needs to happen is a constant US Navy presence on the Somali coast. As long as there is no rule of law, there will be pirates there.
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There is no CNN or US news channels in East Africa. Signal sucks.
I was stuck with Al Jazeera for a week :(

The rewards outweight the risks. People die, nothing new to a country where someone die everyday.

Not possible to police the entire Somali sea
For pirates to be stopped.
I think what needs to happen is US needs to help strengthen to elected moderate in Govt. He has very little power and very small authority to risk blowing it all by stopping pirates.
The coasts need to be cleaned, or offer to help the ex fishermen to clean it but i doubt it would occur.

Bombin will not work. I am 110% certain of that
 
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Kandahar said:
So you'd rather blow them all to hell, including the hostage, then find a peaceful solution where the pirates don't get a damn thing except to extricate themselves from the situation into which they've gotten themselves.

Do you feel the same way when the criminals are white Americans? Do you think the FBI needs hostage negotiators at all, or does the entire premise of that career get your panties in a bunch? :confused:
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They have other ways then blowing them up, to take over the boat.

They should have thought about that before they started this.

What is your problem,are you a black man trapped in a white mans body,or a black man with a white mans avatar.

If you are a pirate, white, green,black, blue, brown,or pink it's a crime.
You get what you deserve,no matter what country you're from.

As far as hostage negotiators are concerned their is a use for them in some
things.
 
Kandahar said:
Exactly. Anyone who thinks that blowing up a little boat full of pirates (including the hostage) is going to deter future pirate attacks is just kidding themselves. For one thing, I doubt every pirate boat on the Somali coast is tuned into CNN. For another thing, the rewards simply outweigh the risks.

IMO what really needs to happen is a constant US Navy presence on the Somali coast. As long as there is no rule of law, there will be pirates there.
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What's the point of having a 'constant US Navy presence' since you've already established in your first paragraph that the use of force won't 'deter future pirate attacks?'

You're running around in circles without addressing anything.

..
 
Grateful Heart said:
What's the point of having a 'constant US Navy presence' since you've already established in your first paragraph that the use of force won't 'deter future pirate attacks?'

You're running around in circles without addressing anything.

..
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Well, the idea would be to stop the pirates BEFORE they take someone hostage. Stopping and arresting/killing pirates will eliminate pirates from the sea.

Killing a few pirates and a hostage for absolutely no reason is not going to have the slightest deterrent effect, as long as other pirates aren't tuned into CNN to hear about it, and as long as the US Navy doesn't have a permanent presence in the area.
 
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Kandahar said:
Well, the idea would be to stop the pirates BEFORE they take someone hostage. Stopping and arresting/killing pirates will eliminate pirates from the sea.

Killing a few pirates and a hostage for absolutely no reason is not going to have the slightest deterrent effect, as long as other pirates aren't tuned into CNN to hear about it, and as long as the US Navy doesn't have a permanent presence in the area.
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Isn't the more pressing problem - Is it legal for any army to enter the territorial waters of another without prior permission from the governing body of a country? [Somalia has a recognised President remember]
 
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Frenchmen rescuing people while America stands back?? Is that vomit I see on gunny's shirt?? :lol::lol:
 
GarzaUK said:
You Americans and your stereotypes lol. I suppose everyone in Britain have bad teeth as well?
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The hilarious thing about that stereotype(the british one.) is it is only the American's. I'm a Pom in Aussieland, I've heard all the jokes and noone has ever mentioned my teeth or British teeth, only American's think we have band teeth. It is strange.

And this strange french stereotype is weird as well. It is one of those that changes, sometimes it is the French, other times the Germans or Brits. From my knowledge there is no truth whatsoever in it, in fact French chicks are hot!
 
Kandahar said:
So you'd rather blow them all to hell, including the hostage, then find a peaceful solution where the pirates don't get a damn thing except to extricate themselves from the situation into which they've gotten themselves.

Do you feel the same way when the criminals are white Americans? Do you think the FBI needs hostage negotiators at all, or does the entire premise of that career get your panties in a bunch? :confused:
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I'd prefer to extricate the hostage then blow them all to hell.
 
The assault ship Boxer is mentioned because it has a hospital, but it also has a large marine contingent, tanks, and giant assault transports. I'm guessing we'll see a marine landing to clean out this rat nest.
 
Laila said:
Isn't the more pressing problem - Is it legal for any army to enter the territorial waters of another without prior permission from the governing body of a country? [Somalia has a recognised President remember]
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I'd say in this situaiton Somalia can shove it's sovereignty. Whenever their crime and corruption becomes international crime and corruption, then they have failed at something. When that crime and corruption puts another nation-state's citizens in danger, and they are not taking any approach to end the the danger, then their wishes mean less than a single crystal of salt in the sea.
 
Kandahar said:
Killing a few pirates and a hostage for absolutely no reason is not going to have the slightest deterrent effect, as long as other pirates aren't tuned into CNN to hear about it, and as long as the US Navy doesn't have a permanent presence in the area.
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If they're pirates, that's enough reason to kill them. If the hostage can be extricated first, great.

As for deterrent effect, display the pirate bodies prominently along the Somali coast, with the words "thou shalt not steal" written in the local dialect posted above each. Personally, I'd advocate bringing back crucifixion.
 
Laila said:
Isn't the more pressing problem - Is it legal for any army to enter the territorial waters of another without prior permission from the governing body of a country? [Somalia has a recognised President remember]
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Well, by that logic, why isn't Somalia's "government" stopping the pirates? Their failure to act is forcing other nations to act instead.

In legalese, the term would likely be something similar to "exigent circumstance"--somebody has to do something. If the Somalis get offended by it....too damn bad.
 
celticlord said:
If they're pirates, that's enough reason to kill them. If the hostage can be extricated first, great.

As for deterrent effect, display the pirate bodies prominently along the Somali coast, with the words "thou shalt not steal" written in the local dialect posted above each. Personally, I'd advocate bringing back crucifixion.
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I still don't think that this showmanship of how we can dismantle another person will do much to deter. I think we need a more practical approach of playing with their uncertainty. We need to make the headline "Pirate Blown Out of the Water" just another statistic...
 
celticlord said:
Well, by that logic, why isn't Somalia's "government" stopping the pirates? Their failure to act is forcing other nations to act instead.

In legalese, the term would likely be something similar to "exigent circumstance"--somebody has to do something. If the Somalis get offended by it....too damn bad.
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Because the government is barely in control of the capital city, let alone the country side. Last I heard the government had just arrived back to the country after years of exile and months on months (if not over a year) after the religious fanatics were kicked out of power by an Ethiopian invasion.

So the US/west is in a loose loose situation. Sure they can go in with full force, into a hostile area costing many many lives and maybe kill a few pirates, but it wont put them out of business. Only a brutal occupation can do that. What they in turn get are pissed off locals that will join forces with the "enemy of my enemy".. which is Al Q and the islamic extremists, and that is exactly what we dont want... rather have the pirates to be honest. Such action will also weaken the very very weak government in Somalia.. Now the government could ask for western assistance, but that would also weaken them considerably in the eyes of the very people that they want to trust them.. the Somalis, which in turn plays right into the hands of the religious extremists backed by Al Q.

Now the US/west can do what they are doing now, trying to fight off the pirates at sea, in international waters. However this plays bad to especially the gun hoarding shoot first ask questions never right wing of the right wing in many western countries. It also some what strengthens the pirates grip on the local population and in fact draws more and more into the pirate game, since it is profitable. It is also a propaganda coup to the pirates as we have seen, drawing more and more to the cause.

It is ironic that it was the islamic extremist AL Q backed government that kept the pirates down to a manageable size back in the day and since they are gone, the problem has exploded.

The US/west are damned if they do, damned if they dont.

And for the record.. Big Danish container ship is hard to "retake" from pirates, where as a small French yacht is a rather simple task, relatively speaking. The amount of space special forces have to cover to secure a ship of that size ... mind boggling. And there is plenty of places on a container ship where the pirates can set up kill zones and traps and in the end any time wasted means a bullet closer to a hostage head.

And it is not the first time the French have hit back at pirates in this way and they have zero tolerance plus the legal means.. as they are one of the nations that have universal jurisdiction on things like war crimes, crimes against humanity and high seas piracy.
 
Arch Enemy said:
I still don't think that this showmanship of how we can dismantle another person will do much to deter.
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I'd say history proves otherwise. Marcus Crassus used that "showmanship" to deter slave revolts in twilight of the Roman Republic with sufficient success that, if memory serves, Rome itself was fairly safe until Alaric sacked the city in 410 CE. This despite a Roman Empire that depended in large part on the institution of slavery.
 
Laila said:
Isn't the more pressing problem - Is it legal for any army to enter the territorial waters of another without prior permission from the governing body of a country? [Somalia has a recognised President remember]
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Well, "legal" is kind of a gray area since Somalia doesn't have any government and since a lot of this stuff happens in international waters anyway. I don't remember the name of the agreement, but the UN has declared that it's OK for other nations to enter Somali territorial waters to pursue pirates. Somalia doesn't really have any government to speak of, so there is really no one to get pissed off at us for violating their sovereignty anyway.
 
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celticlord said:
If they're pirates, that's enough reason to kill them. If the hostage can be extricated first, great.
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In other words, you're more interested in killing the pirates than in actually rescuing the hostage. :roll:

celticlord said:
As for deterrent effect, display the pirate bodies prominently along the Somali coast, with the words "thou shalt not steal" written in the local dialect posted above each. Personally, I'd advocate bringing back crucifixion.
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And what about the 99.9% of the pirates who don't frequent that particular part of the coast and/or don't see the bodies before the locals remove them? :roll:
 
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