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Thread: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Actually, the lack of understanding is yours, not his.

    To begin with, he did not "accept responsibility" for the deaths of those pirates. That responsibility was theirs, and they accepted it the moment they attempted to seize the Maersk Alabama--this was no problematic Lindbergh baby kidnapping where there was distinct possibility of innocent men being wrongly convicted and executed. He was not a judge, nor was he a jury, and their executioners were the Navy SEAL snipers who gave them a far more merciful end than was their due.

    Further, the good Reverend has a point. This was one good call, but the problem of piracy remains. As good as Navy SEAL snipers are, they are not the constant solution to what is at this point a constant problem. The pirate nests need to be cleaned out and the Somalis need to get the hint that, no matter how much poverty sucks, piracy is not the pathway to prosperity. What has the President said or done to advance that larger objective? So far, nothing.

    Finally, even if the responsibility of making such decisions is awesome and weighty and all the rest....so what? Any man who stayed awake in high school history class knows at the very least that being President is not an easy job. He asked for the job anyway. If he is burdened by such responsibility, he should not have run for the office.

    Of a certainty the job is weighty and challenging; a man who fails to appreciate that going in has no business sitting in the Oval Office. This incident is nothing compared to the enormity of the challenge of Iran, or the delicacy of the difficulty that is North Korea, or the complexity that is Russia. I do hope that the current occupant of the Oval Office is not as weighted down by this crisis as you suggest, for that indeed does not augur well for the real crises to come.

    The President made a good call--but let's not pretend this call was major league. It wasn't. The REAL challenges in foreign policy are still yet to come.
    I would like to ask the DP forum participants who make perfect sense to not fall for the media's talking points by calling these Somali Terrorists pirates.

    Words have meaning and to make the arguments more coherent, we should correctly call these Somali terrorists what they are, TERRORISTS.

    Thank you.

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    The Pirate asked to get shot when they held hostage a US citizen. How stupid do they have to be to not expect death.
    This is stunningly surprising coming from you. This has to be a first that I agree with you; bravo!

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    "Interdict" and "prosecute" are used by the military as synonyms for engage/destroy/kill.
    You really think Pres Doofus speaks Military? For some reason, I doubt it.

    .

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post

    Here's the BIGGER question; will he also then accept responsibility when Somali terrorists carry out their threats to start specifically targeting Americans for this act?

    I would guess this reckless Somali threat just put the president on a hair trigger to respond with overwhelming force to any incident. Do you have any idea of the military capability of that one assault ship, the Boxer? I've been on that ship, and it's capable of wiping out the entire pirate business by itself. The ship carries a contingent of 2,000 marines with Abrams tanks, howitzers, missiles, Harriers, helicopter gunships, and high speed air cushion assault craft. Check this out:

    LHD Wasp Class Amphibious Assault Ships - Naval Technology

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    REALLY??? They are pirates? So what makes them pirates and NOT terrorists? Do they fly the skull and crossbones from their pirate ships? Do the say, “arrrrgggggh matey” when they charge aboard the ships they are "pirating?"

    I find the media distortions about what these people are quite amusing. Folks, these are TERRORISTS. Suggesting that they are pirates requires the willing suspension of disbelief.
    Ah yes, lets derail the revs post, can’t keep it on something the President did right eh? Hey, these pirates were trying to shakedown the vessel in question.

    They wanted a ransom: that’s what pirate’s did in the so-called golden age of piracy, that’s what these goons were attempting.

    The rest of your lame a** attempt at a derail will be ignored.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth Detector View Post
    REALLY??? They are pirates? So what makes them pirates and NOT terrorists? Do they fly the skull and crossbones from their pirate ships? Do the say, “arrrrgggggh matey” when they charge aboard the ships they are "pirating?"

    I find the media distortions about what these people are quite amusing. Folks, these are TERRORISTS. Suggesting that they are pirates requires the willing suspension of disbelief.

    How do I know they are terrorists? Because they terrorize shipping that comes within 15 miles of their shores with RPGs and AK-47s and hold the ships and their crews hostage to finance their terrorist activities.

    Now, I may be open to the argument that they could be organized crime; but based on their targets, it would be a hard sell to me.

    So this begs the question; why is everyone in the media trying to re-define what a terrorist is? Why make the absurd statement that these terrorists are "pirates?"

    This is the same absurdity the mainstream media uses to call anything that remotely resembles a military weapon "assault weapon." But the true definition of an "assault weapon" requires that the weapon have selective fire from semi-auto to full auto. The call them "assault weapons" in a desperate effort to lump legal weapons into the illegal weapon category to promote their anti-gun agenda; much like they attempt to call terrorism nothing more than piracy.

    Only there is a clear difference between piracy and terrorism. Terrorism has political goals and piracy does not. Your argument is like saying that because U.S. soldiers and Iraqi insurgents both use guns that they're both the same. No. Pirates have no political goals. Their only goal is to take a ship hostage and get money. When terrorists take a ship hostage they demand and then blow up. Please stop presenting your opinion as facts?

    Your simpleton interpretation of the word pirate is like that of my kid and dinosaurs. Just because thieves don't really go around wearing zorro masks and tip toeing to really childish music does that make them any less thieves? Pirates didn't really go around 24/7 using the Jolly Rodger which is famously known as the 'Pirate Flag'. It was used by like 4 pirates out of a total of HUNDREDS at the time. Most pirates used simple black flags and in a lot of cases no flag at all. With all that being said this is f'n Somalia. Do you think they really give a **** about flying flags? Do you think they give a **** about presenting an image of style over substance when they're about to take over a few hundred metric tons of oil? Seriously TD - the world is a little bit more complicated then HamBurglars and Jack Sparrows.

    I bet this is what you think all thieves look like :



    With their pirate counterparts :



    And their astronaut counterparts :

    Last edited by Hatuey; 04-13-09 at 04:14 PM.
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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Only there is a clear difference between piracy and terrorism. Terrorism has political goals and piracy does not. Your argument is like saying that because U.S. soldiers and Iraqi insurgents both use guns that they're both the same. No. Terrorists have no political goals. Their only goal is to take a ship hostage and get money. When terrorists take a ship hostage they demand and then blow up. Please stop presenting your opinion as facts?
    You GottaLove that.

    While everyone is getting technical over terminology, by definition, terrorist/terrorism and pirate/piracy are not even close.

    Kidnap/kidnappers would be the appropriate terminology. They took a man by force and held him for ransom.

    terrorism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    piracy - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    kidnap - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
    Pain can be such a beautiful thing

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHurt View Post
    You GottaLove that.

    While everyone is getting technical over terminology, by definition, terrorist/terrorism and pirate/piracy are not even close.

    Kidnap/kidnappers would be the appropriate terminology. They took a man by force and held him for ransom.

    terrorism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    piracy - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

    kidnap - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
    Meh - I guess if you want something to prematurely ejaculate over - like how i re-edit my posts 2-3 times after I'm done. Well.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Ah yes, lets derail the revs post, can’t keep it on something the President did right eh? Hey, these pirates were trying to shakedown the vessel in question.

    They wanted a ransom: that’s what pirate’s did in the so-called golden age of piracy, that’s what these goons were attempting.

    The rest of your lame a** attempt at a derail will be ignored.
    The only ones attempting to de-rail the Rev's posts are the typical cabal of trolls and baiters who infest the forum with their emotional babble.

    Labeling these "goons" as being mere pirates requires the willing suspension of disbelief that they are operating with impunity under their Governments noses, that they are indeed terrorizing the crews who are legally operating these ships and that by labeling them with the term pirates, the world body of Community Organizers can avoid dealing with the REAL problem which they have ignored for decades, the rogue Islamic regime that controls Somalia.

    Your selective outrage and lame attempt to claim I am trolling has been noted. I am sure if you asked the Rev if I am de-railing his thread, he would adamantly disagree with you. I am sure he is also happy that you have designated yourself as his personal spokesperson.

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    Re: Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Only there is a clear difference between piracy and terrorism. Terrorism has political goals and piracy does not. Your argument is like saying that because U.S. soldiers and Iraqi insurgents both use guns that they're both the same. No. Pirates have no political goals. Their only goal is to take a ship hostage and get money. When terrorists take a ship hostage they demand and then blow up. Please stop presenting your opinion as facts?
    What definition of terrorism states that it requires political goals? Could you please link me to a definition that contains such a passage; or is this once more YOUR personal definition to fit your OWN point of view?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Your simpleton interpretation of the word pirate is like that of my kid and dinosaurs. Just because thieves don't really go around wearing zorro masks and tip toeing to really childish music does that make them any less thieves? Pirates didn't really go around 24/7 using the Jolly Rodger which is famously known as the 'Pirate Flag'. It was used by like 4 pirates out of a total of HUNDREDS at the time. Most pirates used simple black flags and in a lot of cases no flag at all. With all that being said this is f'n Somalia. Do you think they really give a **** about flying flags? Do you think they give a **** about presenting an image of style over substance when they're about to take over a few hundred metric tons of oil? Seriously TD - the world is a little bit more complicated then HamBurglars and Jack Sparrows.

    I bet this is what you think all thieves look like :
    How ironic watching you claim that others arguments are "simplistic" when you are the one posting the trite and simplistic cartoons in an attempt to make your silly argument that terrorism requires a political goal and ignore the substance of what my argument constitutes which I will repeat for you again:

    The reason the term “pirates” is being used is merely an effort to avoid the state of terror that exists within the nation of Somalia and the terror they are conducting off their shores and that it is quite possible the Government is complicit in these attacks and the money is being used to fund terrorism; which the world has chosen to ignore for decades because to deal with the issue would require effort, sacrifice and be costly. It is far easier to deal with an issue by engaging in semantics using terms like “piracy” rather than to acknowledge that these “terrorists” are acting with impunity from their own Government and that the ONLY way the United Nations can deal with these acts is to deal with the Government whom we all know no one wants to do.

    I look forward to seeing a credible link to your version of the definition of terrorism; that it requires a political goal.

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