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Thread: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

  1. #41
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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Yes. this is why most cruise ships fly a Liberian flag.
    Do you pay taxes based on what flag you operate under?
    And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Have you ever met that guy who was so far behind he thought he was ahead? You're that guy right now.

    Carry on.



    If I am that far behind that I think I am ahead, imagine how far behind you are then!

    Carry on indeed.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by new coup for you View Post
    Do you pay taxes based on what flag you operate under?


    Exactly.....
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Its not an American ship. It is a Danish ship, owned by the worlds largest shipping company Maersk.

    You cant call it an "american ship" because of what flag it is under. Ownership is key, where as flag is a legl and often financial issue due the differences between countries.

    The flag the ship flies is the jurisdiction it is under. This is an American ship owned by a dutch company, as usual you are wrong.


    The most likely reason that this ship is under American flag, is that it has been used and can be used by the US military for transportation. During the first gulf war it was Maersk who offered all his ships to the US military and they used quite a few of them to ship over tanks and equipment. Maersk has the biggest transportation ship on the planet and has some of the biggest oil tankers too.

    The owner of Maersk is an old billionaire with a love of America, and especially the American business model and "American dream" philosophy.

    But saying that, I suspect that a few favours might be called in to get the ship freed very fast......

    so what? This ship was flying the American colors. It is an American ship and Obama needs to act accordingly to this piracy.


    I liked the idea that was floated, I believe by bush, to issue letters of marque to hunt these pirates. I would so get one just to have
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #45
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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Can't. I believe maritime treaties forbid civillian ships from being armed or something.
    I don't think having marines carrying their weapons aboard a ship would count as the ship being armed. You probably can't install permanent cannon on a civilian ship, but I doubt semi-portable small arms count, especially if being operated by military personal. Carrying aboard a few machine guns should be enough firepower.

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Dropping a few JDAMs on boomtown mansions will solve this problem for us and keep our ships safe and pirate free.
    Wrong as usual. The mansions and (probably) the people in them are not responsible for the seizure of the American crew, and bombing them could possibly result in the crew's murder. Of course the life of the crew is at risk, but the solution seems clear. The ship itself must be seized as quickly as possible, the pirates neutralized, and their mother ship sunk. It may take time to get assets into position, but I promise you, they are on the move as we speak.

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    The flag the ship flies is the jurisdiction it is under. This is an American ship owned by a dutch company, as usual you are wrong.
    Dutch? yea sure...

    Maersk Line shipping containers worldwide

    Maersk Line is a division of the A.P. Moller - Maersk Group.

    Corporate headquarters:
    Esplanaden 50
    1098 Copenhagen K
    Denmark
    A. P. Moller-Maersk Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So who is it that is wrong? Let me guess, its the idiots at Fox News that got it wrong yet again and you believed them right?

    so what? This ship was flying the American colors. It is an American ship and Obama needs to act accordingly to this piracy.

    I liked the idea that was floated, I believe by bush, to issue letters of marque to hunt these pirates. I would so get one just to have
    I agree that any nation should act against pirates, especially since a ship is under your own flag. But there is the principle and then there is the reality. Going "in" on that ship... totaly nuts tbh. This ship is one of the biggest container ships on the planet. Now I have not been next to this particular ship, but I have been on sister ships and these ships are huge. Imagine if it was a US Air Craft Carrier, since that is about the size of the ship.... 50 pirates holding 20 hostages on a ship that size... good luck on taking that ship without any major damage or fatalities among the hostages.

    However, as you should know being under "a flag" means nothing. It is ownership that is key, and in this case it is not owned by an American corporation, so I am guessing that Obama (and even dear Furher Bush) could not do anything about it per say since the US is not in the habit of aiding non US companies in times of need.

    What if the ship was under Panamanian flag but owned by a US company then what? Should the US military help the ship, since according to you it is a Panamanian ship?

    Now in this specific case there is the "Maersk" factor involved, which can change things considerably. Maersk has many friends in the US Navy and the US military infrastructure. Plus Maersk is also in very high regard with most countries in the region, since many use Maersk ships to transport their goods.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Who cares what flag was on whos ship. It doesnt change the fact that there are 21 Americans held at gunpoint as we speak. If piracy wasnt an American problem before, it is now. We need to do something to get them back, and we need to do something to protect our sailors from this in the future.

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Its not an American ship. It is a Danish ship, owned by the worlds largest shipping company Maersk.
    Mmmmmm......Danish.


    Anyway, does it really matter where the ship is from? There were Americans captured, we (the US) have to do something to get them back, end of story. Do we pay a ransom and exchange, thus rewarding the pirates for their actions or do we do something more drastic to demonstrate that their actions will come with no reward if they act against our countrymen or property? That's the real issue. Now, I want to be a pirate, so I would say reward them! But I also want to be an old school pirate, the likes of Johnny Depp and the Yo Ho Yo Ho a pirates life for me, in which case I would say blow them out of the water for not being authentic pirates. Though I am torn between the One Piece sort of piracy and the Black Lagoon sort of piracy...maybe they can both be right.

    Either way, WTF are they really going to do, even if we pay ransom they have to pick it up and what would stop us from capturing/killing them when we figure out where they are at?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Dutch? yea sure...

    Maersk Line shipping containers worldwide



    A. P. Moller-Maersk Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So who is it that is wrong? Let me guess, its the idiots at Fox News that got it wrong yet again and you believed them right?



    I agree that any nation should act against pirates, especially since a ship is under your own flag. But there is the principle and then there is the reality. Going "in" on that ship... totaly nuts tbh. This ship is one of the biggest container ships on the planet. Now I have not been next to this particular ship, but I have been on sister ships and these ships are huge. Imagine if it was a US Air Craft Carrier, since that is about the size of the ship.... 50 pirates holding 20 hostages on a ship that size... good luck on taking that ship without any major damage or fatalities among the hostages.

    However, as you should know being under "a flag" means nothing. It is ownership that is key, and in this case it is not owned by an American corporation, so I am guessing that Obama (and even dear Furher Bush) could not do anything about it per say since the US is not in the habit of aiding non US companies in times of need.

    What if the ship was under Panamanian flag but owned by a US company then what? Should the US military help the ship, since according to you it is a Panamanian ship?

    Now in this specific case there is the "Maersk" factor involved, which can change things considerably. Maersk has many friends in the US Navy and the US military infrastructure. Plus Maersk is also in very high regard with most countries in the region, since many use Maersk ships to transport their goods.



    Do you want me to argue your "feelings" The ship is flying us colors, that makes it a US ship.

    There are 21 Americans captured.


    Either of these two are enough to act. Here we have both.,
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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