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Somali pirates seize ship; 21 Americans aboard

Hatuey said:
Irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of those who have paid ransoms are the companies that own the ships. I can't even think of a government paying the ransom.
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You are right, the ransom is irrelevant. It is however relevant how ships flying the US flags are respected.


Dropping a few JDAMs on boomtown mansions will solve this problem for us and keep our ships safe and pirate free.
 
It was actually a Danish ship, it was just crewed by Americans.

Nevertheless, I think it's an American issue and I hope Obama uses it as a pretext (one that he can sell politically) for dealing with the pirates with a stronger hand that has been done i the past (by both past American administrations and the rest of the world).

What i'd do is mine the waters around the pirate ports.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
No American ship, not our problem. American ship. Our problem.

Any questions?



3rd request. What was your point in bringing up Bush.


What did you mean by "Another problem handed on from Bush"
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Um...cause it's true? But look, I can see this is making you really emotional, so I'll just drop it.

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Nope. I see it more as a problem for europe, east aisia, and africa to handle. Until you touch our ships.
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Well, that long-term approach sure worked out swell, and I'm sure the 21 American hostages appreciate it.
 
new coup for you said:
It was actually a Danish ship, it was just crewed by Americans.

Nevertheless, I think it's an American issue and I hope Obama uses it as a pretext (one that he can sell politically) for dealing with the pirates with a stronger hand that has been done i the past (by both past American administrations and the rest of the world).

What i'd do is mine the waters around the pirate ports.
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"In a statement, the company later confirmed that the US-flagged vessel has 20 Americans onboard."

Somali Pirates Seize US Cargo Ship Off Horn Of Africa | World News | Sky News
 
Cardinal said:
Um...cause it's true? But look, I can see this is making you really emotional, so I'll just drop it.
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yes, emotional. I am laughing at you. :lol::lol:


How did bush "hand" this problem to Obama?


Well, that long-term approach sure worked out swell, and I'm sure the 21 American hostages appreciate it.
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The next 21 will if Obama does what needs to be done.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
"In a statement, the company later confirmed that the US-flagged vessel has 20 Americans onboard."

Somali Pirates Seize US Cargo Ship Off Horn Of Africa | World News | Sky News
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BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirates hijack Danish ship

I'm using BBC. Are we talking about the same incident?

"The US-operated container vessel, named as Maersk Alabama, was seized in the Indian Ocean about 400 miles (645km) east of the capital, Mogadishu.
The Danish-owned ship's crew members are believed to be safe, the European Union's maritime security force said."

So it's US-operated and Danish owned. To me that means it's a Danish ship, although maritime law isn't my specialty.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
How did bush "hand" this problem to Obama?
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I missed this edit.

You know, for someone who immediately jumped all over me to "catch up," your attention span could sure use some work. I answered that already.
 
new coup for you said:
BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirates hijack Danish ship

I'm using BBC. Are we talking about the same incident?

"The US-operated container vessel, named as Maersk Alabama, was seized in the Indian Ocean about 400 miles (645km) east of the capital, Mogadishu.
The Danish-owned ship's crew members are believed to be safe, the European Union's maritime security force said."

So it's US-operated and Danish owned. To me that means it's a Danish ship, although maritime law isn't my specialty.
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I see what you are missing.


It is a danish ship. it is operated under US law, under the US flag. For all legal purposes this is an American ship.
 
Cardinal said:
I missed this edit.

You know, for someone who immediately jumped all over me to "catch up," your attention span could sure use some work. I answered that already.
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Where? you sort of blabbered on about some nonsense. You had no purpose in bringing up Bush. Noted.


And you still haven't caught up. :lol:
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So now, what will the response be. I personally am concerned that Obama will not respond with a firm hand and this will open up more attacks on American ships.


Obama is at a crossroads here with this one. If we pay the ransom, shame on us, shame on him.
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I think we should pay the ransom and then give a bit more to reward piracy. There's not enough pirates, 'tis a noble trade steeped in tradition it is. If anything we be needing more pirates! Yarrrr.

I needs me my rum!
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I see what you are missing.


It is a danish ship. it is operated under US law, under the US flag. For all legal purposes this is an American ship.
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Well, BBC didn't actually say anything about it's national allegiance...but...so its operational "flag" isn't related to its actual country of origin?

So if I own a ship and I'm an American citizen I can have it operate under any national flag I want?

That's a terrible system.
 
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new coup for you said:
Well, BBC didn't actually say anything about it's national allegiance...but...so its operational "flag" isn't related to its actual country of origin?

So if I own a ship and I'm an American citizen I can have it operate under any national flag I want?

That's a terrible system.
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Yes. this is why most cruise ships fly a Liberian flag.
 
Its not an American ship. It is a Danish ship, owned by the worlds largest shipping company Maersk.

You cant call it an "american ship" because of what flag it is under. Ownership is key, where as flag is a legal and often financial issue due the differences between countries.

The most likely reason that this ship is under American flag, is that it has been used and can be used by the US military for transportation. During the first gulf war it was Maersk who offered all his ships to the US military and they used quite a few of them to ship over tanks and equipment. Maersk has the biggest transportation ship on the planet and has some of the biggest oil tankers too.

The owner of Maersk is an old billionaire with a love of America, and especially the American business model and "American dream" philosophy.

But saying that, I suspect that a few favours might be called in to get the ship freed very fast......
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Where? you sort of blabbered on about some nonsense. You had no purpose in bringing up Bush. Noted.


And you still haven't caught up. :lol:
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Have you ever met that guy who was so far behind he thought he was ahead? You're that guy right now.

Carry on.
 
Cardinal said:
Have you ever met that guy who was so far behind he thought he was ahead? You're that guy right now.

Carry on.
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If I am that far behind that I think I am ahead, imagine how far behind you are then!

Carry on indeed.
 
PeteEU said:
Its not an American ship. It is a Danish ship, owned by the worlds largest shipping company Maersk.

You cant call it an "american ship" because of what flag it is under. Ownership is key, where as flag is a legl and often financial issue due the differences between countries.
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The flag the ship flies is the jurisdiction it is under. This is an American ship owned by a dutch company, as usual you are wrong.


The most likely reason that this ship is under American flag, is that it has been used and can be used by the US military for transportation. During the first gulf war it was Maersk who offered all his ships to the US military and they used quite a few of them to ship over tanks and equipment. Maersk has the biggest transportation ship on the planet and has some of the biggest oil tankers too.

The owner of Maersk is an old billionaire with a love of America, and especially the American business model and "American dream" philosophy.

But saying that, I suspect that a few favours might be called in to get the ship freed very fast......
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so what? This ship was flying the American colors. It is an American ship and Obama needs to act accordingly to this piracy.


I liked the idea that was floated, I believe by bush, to issue letters of marque to hunt these pirates. I would so get one just to have :lol:
 
Can't. I believe maritime treaties forbid civillian ships from being armed or something.
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I don't think having marines carrying their weapons aboard a ship would count as the ship being armed. You probably can't install permanent cannon on a civilian ship, but I doubt semi-portable small arms count, especially if being operated by military personal. Carrying aboard a few machine guns should be enough firepower.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Dropping a few JDAMs on boomtown mansions will solve this problem for us and keep our ships safe and pirate free.
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Wrong as usual. The mansions and (probably) the people in them are not responsible for the seizure of the American crew, and bombing them could possibly result in the crew's murder. Of course the life of the crew is at risk, but the solution seems clear. The ship itself must be seized as quickly as possible, the pirates neutralized, and their mother ship sunk. It may take time to get assets into position, but I promise you, they are on the move as we speak.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
The flag the ship flies is the jurisdiction it is under. This is an American ship owned by a dutch company, as usual you are wrong.
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Dutch? yea sure...

Maersk Line shipping containers worldwide

Maersk Line is a division of the A.P. Moller - Maersk Group.

Corporate headquarters:
Esplanaden 50
1098 Copenhagen K
Denmark
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A. P. Moller-Maersk Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So who is it that is wrong? Let me guess, its the idiots at Fox News that got it wrong yet again and you believed them right?

so what? This ship was flying the American colors. It is an American ship and Obama needs to act accordingly to this piracy.

I liked the idea that was floated, I believe by bush, to issue letters of marque to hunt these pirates. I would so get one just to have :lol:
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I agree that any nation should act against pirates, especially since a ship is under your own flag. But there is the principle and then there is the reality. Going "in" on that ship... totaly nuts tbh. This ship is one of the biggest container ships on the planet. Now I have not been next to this particular ship, but I have been on sister ships and these ships are huge. Imagine if it was a US Air Craft Carrier, since that is about the size of the ship.... 50 pirates holding 20 hostages on a ship that size... good luck on taking that ship without any major damage or fatalities among the hostages.

However, as you should know being under "a flag" means nothing. It is ownership that is key, and in this case it is not owned by an American corporation, so I am guessing that Obama (and even dear Furher Bush) could not do anything about it per say since the US is not in the habit of aiding non US companies in times of need.

What if the ship was under Panamanian flag but owned by a US company then what? Should the US military help the ship, since according to you it is a Panamanian ship? :)

Now in this specific case there is the "Maersk" factor involved, which can change things considerably. Maersk has many friends in the US Navy and the US military infrastructure. Plus Maersk is also in very high regard with most countries in the region, since many use Maersk ships to transport their goods.
 
Who cares what flag was on whos ship. It doesnt change the fact that there are 21 Americans held at gunpoint as we speak. If piracy wasnt an American problem before, it is now. We need to do something to get them back, and we need to do something to protect our sailors from this in the future.
 
PeteEU said:
Its not an American ship. It is a Danish ship, owned by the worlds largest shipping company Maersk.
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Mmmmmm......Danish.


Anyway, does it really matter where the ship is from? There were Americans captured, we (the US) have to do something to get them back, end of story. Do we pay a ransom and exchange, thus rewarding the pirates for their actions or do we do something more drastic to demonstrate that their actions will come with no reward if they act against our countrymen or property? That's the real issue. Now, I want to be a pirate, so I would say reward them! But I also want to be an old school pirate, the likes of Johnny Depp and the Yo Ho Yo Ho a pirates life for me, in which case I would say blow them out of the water for not being authentic pirates. Though I am torn between the One Piece sort of piracy and the Black Lagoon sort of piracy...maybe they can both be right.

Either way, WTF are they really going to do, even if we pay ransom they have to pick it up and what would stop us from capturing/killing them when we figure out where they are at?
 
PeteEU said:
Dutch? yea sure...

Maersk Line shipping containers worldwide



A. P. Moller-Maersk Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So who is it that is wrong? Let me guess, its the idiots at Fox News that got it wrong yet again and you believed them right?



I agree that any nation should act against pirates, especially since a ship is under your own flag. But there is the principle and then there is the reality. Going "in" on that ship... totaly nuts tbh. This ship is one of the biggest container ships on the planet. Now I have not been next to this particular ship, but I have been on sister ships and these ships are huge. Imagine if it was a US Air Craft Carrier, since that is about the size of the ship.... 50 pirates holding 20 hostages on a ship that size... good luck on taking that ship without any major damage or fatalities among the hostages.

However, as you should know being under "a flag" means nothing. It is ownership that is key, and in this case it is not owned by an American corporation, so I am guessing that Obama (and even dear Furher Bush) could not do anything about it per say since the US is not in the habit of aiding non US companies in times of need.

What if the ship was under Panamanian flag but owned by a US company then what? Should the US military help the ship, since according to you it is a Panamanian ship? :)

Now in this specific case there is the "Maersk" factor involved, which can change things considerably. Maersk has many friends in the US Navy and the US military infrastructure. Plus Maersk is also in very high regard with most countries in the region, since many use Maersk ships to transport their goods.
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Do you want me to argue your "feelings" The ship is flying us colors, that makes it a US ship.

There are 21 Americans captured.


Either of these two are enough to act. Here we have both.,
 
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