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Thread: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Something is added. Hetero marriage stays the same, Homosexual marriage gains the ability of people being able to marry those whom they truly love;
    To be fair, love is absolutely pointless and non-existance in the requirements of a legal marriage if I remember correctly. There is no requirement that one must marry someone they love, that the law requires that you love the person you are marrying, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    And 5 years later, the court held in Baker v. Nelson that Loving did not apply to gay marriage.

    lol, no, it has not. That's just absurd.
    Stop that! Stop that now! No using facts! They hate facts!

    I mean, what will people be able to do. They like to talk about Loving none stop and go "See, its constitutional! Its a constitutional right to marry therefore homosexuals should marry! The Will of the People shouldn't stop a constitutional right!"

    Of course, they don't mention that the courts ALSO decided that gay marriage ISN'T a constitutional right.

    So as of now, no, the "will of the people" is not over turning a constitutional right and people like Disney blathering on about it by using Loving as proof are talking out their ass. They can say they BELIEVE its blocking somethign they BELIEVE is a constitutional right, but saying it as if its fact is just flat out horse****.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    The fact that there are still more states to legalize same sex marriage makes me question America's "free society".
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    To be fair, love is absolutely pointless and non-existance in the requirements of a legal marriage if I remember correctly. There is no requirement that one must marry someone they love, that the law requires that you love the person you are marrying, etc.

    Stop that! Stop that now! No using facts! They hate facts!

    I mean, what will people be able to do. They like to talk about Loving none stop and go "See, its constitutional! Its a constitutional right to marry therefore homosexuals should marry! The Will of the People shouldn't stop a constitutional right!"

    Of course, they don't mention that the courts ALSO decided that gay marriage ISN'T a constitutional right.

    So as of now, no, the "will of the people" is not over turning a constitutional right and people like Disney blathering on about it by using Loving as proof are talking out their ass. They can say they BELIEVE its blocking somethign they BELIEVE is a constitutional right, but saying it as if its fact is just flat out horse****.
    The Court never heard the case of Baker v. Nelson. They denied it on the basis of no federal question. That deferred it to the states to decide.

    The Supreme Court never decided on the constitutional issue of same-sex marriage.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    The fact that there are still more states to legalize same sex marriage makes me question America's "free society".
    One of the beautiful things about America is that the decentralized nature of our federalist system, in which states are granted the autonomy to make decisions on controversial issues, allows the states to make decisions which best reflect the culture and values of that state.

    File:Samesex marriage in USA.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Forget it, you're not listening, never mind.
    Hahahah, you can't explain yourself well enough, and it's my fault. Yeah right, learn to make a proper argument and not make "demands" of people when you write posts and come back. I even used your very own analogy you used to show what is gained on both sides. I even used your logic to show that it doesn't match up with REALITY, and thus since you missed the end points you obviously made an incorrect assumption in the creation of the hypothesis. My arguments at the very least match reality.

    But yeah, I'm not listening. It's not that you're not listening and your argument is crap...it's all me. Right.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    One of the beautiful things about America is that the decentralized nature of our federalist system, in which states are granted the autonomy to make decisions on controversial issues, allows the states to make decisions which best reflect the culture and values of that state.
    I dont think the culture and values of a paticular state concern or should dictate that same sex marriage is unacceptable. I mean, i dont think same sex marriage is legal in California, is it? That place is hardly in a lack of homosexuals to dismiss a possibility for same sex marriage.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    The Court never heard the case of Baker v. Nelson. They denied it on the basis of no federal question. That deferred it to the states to decide.

    The Supreme Court never decided on the constitutional issue of same-sex marriage.
    Thus, stating that Marriage in the vein of Gay marriage is a "Constitutional Right" as if it is FACT is erronious because the surpreme court has not established it as such nor does the constitution.

    You may claim it to be your opinion, but there is no fact there. If the court felt the need to overrule the lower court and specifically overturn the belief that gay marriage isn't included in the right of marriage, it could've taken the case. It didn't. Gay Marriage is not currently a right garaunteed by the constitution, and is a state issue. Claiming it as a FACT that it is or insinuating that its a FACT is flat out an error.

    The people of California voting to overturn the right for marriage in a traditional sense for be the population having a referendum on a constitutional right. The people of California voting to overturn the gay marriage is a referendum on a state issue by the people of that state and does not deal with the constitutional right decleared in Loving.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    I think the SCOTUS would like the states to settle this issue themselves.....
    They can't.

    The "full faith and credit" clause of the Constitution is going to force this matter right up the Supreme Court's back door.

    The USSC is trying to avoid it because the Constitution makes one thing quite plain....sexual discrimation in marriage is not allowed by the 14th Amendment, and the full faith and credit clause means that states can't disallow same-sex marriages in other states just because they've written a silly bigoted exception into their own state constitutions.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Thus, stating that Marriage in the vein of Gay marriage is a "Constitutional Right" as if it is FACT is erronious because the surpreme court has not established it as such nor does the constitution.

    You may claim it to be your opinion, but there is no fact there. If the court felt the need to overrule the lower court and specifically overturn the belief that gay marriage isn't included in the right of marriage, it could've taken the case. It didn't. Gay Marriage is not currently a right garaunteed by the constitution, and is a state issue. Claiming it as a FACT that it is or insinuating that its a FACT is flat out an error.

    The people of California voting to overturn the right for marriage in a traditional sense for be the population having a referendum on a constitutional right. The people of California voting to overturn the gay marriage is a referendum on a state issue by the people of that state and does not deal with the constitutional right decleared in Loving.
    No marriage is a specific guaranteed right under the Constitution, yet the Supreme Court has addressed it.

    You are right in that the Supreme Court probably felt in 1972 that same-sex marriage is a state issue (Baker v. Nelson). In these times, the States are addressing it, both approval and denial.

    It is because of the fact that the issue is not resulting in uniformity throughout the lower courts that the Supreme Court will have to address this issue someday.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm not arguing against gay-marriage. I'm only pointing out that it's not a civil rights issue.

    Things like facts and truth matter to me, apparently no for pro-gm, though...whatever gets them what they want.
    Same sex marriage isn't a civil rights issue?

    Interracial marriage certainly was.

    What if it was an interracial same sex marriage, would that make it a civil rights issue in your mind?

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