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Thread: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Do not assume about what I agree or disagree.

    Do you believe that, as an operation of law, Constitutional rights can be established or disestablished by a popular vote--by a simple 50% +1 majority?
    Constitutions should only be used to regulate the government, not the people.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
    I disagree with it "not being a civil rights" issue.
    That's nice, but you're wrong, so I don't care

    If gays were merely given something heteros already had, then why did heteros gain something with this ruling?

    The only way this could have been a civil right issue is if there were nearly as many heteros fighting to marry someone of the same gender as gays.

    Look at Loving. You have whites and blacks fighting for it. Not so with gay marriage. It's the equivalent to only blacks fighting to marry whites, but no whites fighting to marry blacks.

    Gay marriage is not a civil rights issue.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-07-09 at 06:30 PM.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm not arguing against gay-marriage. I'm only pointing out that it's not a civil rights issue.
    .
    If a woman can do something a man can not do like marry a man or a man can do something a woman can not do like marry a woman it is a civil rights issue under the law. Equal protection and all.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    If a woman can do something a man can not do like marry a man or a man can do something a woman can not do like marry a woman it is a civil rights issue under the law. Equal protection and all.
    Everyone has the right to marry someone of the opposite gender and no one had the right to marry someone of the same gender: everything was already equal.

    To prove my point: Everyone in Virginia are all still bound to every restriction that everyone else in Virginia is. It's still equal. It hasn't become equal, it's still equal, that hasn't changed.

    Therefore gay marriage is not a civil rights issue.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-07-09 at 06:24 PM.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Of course they aren't, this paves the way for no less than the following:

    • Polygamy will be here to stay. SO, HOW DOES THIS EFFECT YOU?
    • Marrying farm animals, or other animals will happen. GUARANTEED. GUARANTEED? YOU'LL BECOME GAY NOW, GUARANTEED.
    • What about guy friends who get married just for the benefits? WHAT BENEFITS AND IF TRUE HOW DOES THIS EFFECT YOU?
    • God disapproves of it. THEN LET GOD TELL US ALL THAT HE DISAPPROVES, NOT JUST SOMEONE MORE THAN 2000 YEARS AGO.


    Farm animals... BWAHAHAHA... stop projecting.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Everyone has the right to marry someone of the opposite gender and no one had the right to marry someone of the same gender: everything was already equal.

    To prove my point: Everyone in Virginia are all still bound to every restriction that everyone else in Virginia is. It's still equal. It hasn't become equal, it's still equal, that hasn't changed.

    Therefore gay marriage is not a civil rights issue.
    Equal doesn't always mean it's not a civil rights issue. I can say blacks can't marry whites. That's equal. Black people can marry black people, white people can marry white people; but they can't marry each other. But that's a civil rights issue because you are discriminating on the basis of race. I'm sure there's not many people who would say that barring interracial marriage is right because we've been brought up trying to rid ourselves of such racism. But it still exists with homosexuality. A man can love a woman and those two can get married. But if a man loves a man, those two can not get married, and hence you've discriminated. Everyone may be held to the same standard, but it doesn't make it just or not a rights issue. This is due mostly to the two situations not being equal. You are saying two people who love each other can enter into a contract because they are male and female, but two people who love each other can not enter into that same contract if the are male and male.

    In fact, it goes well deeper than civil rights and talks to innate an inalienable rights. Marriage is a State contract, it comes with automatic benefits and powers which are beneficial for married people. Hospital visitation, property issues, tax issues, etc. There are many reasons why people wish to engage in the contract of marriage. But you are infringing upon the innate and inalienable right to contract by denying two same sex couples from forging this State recognized, legal contract whereas you will allow two opposite sex couples to engage in this State recognized, legal contract no questions asked. You either destroy the marriage license, or you allow same sex couples equal access to it. Those are the only two rightful solutions.
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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's nice, but you're wrong, so I don't care

    If gays were merely given something heteros already had, then why did heteros gain something with this ruling?

    The only way this could have been a civil right issue is if there were nearly as many heteros fighting to marry someone of the same gender as gays.

    Look at Loving. You have whites and blacks fighting for it. Not so with gay marriage. It's the equivalent to only blacks fighting to marry whites, but no whites fighting to marry blacks.

    Gay marriage is not a civil rights issue.
    Here's your comment, altered to show how silly it is.

    If blacks were merely given something whites already had, then why did whites gain something with this ruling?

    The only way this could have been a civil right issue is if there were nearly as many whites fighting to marry someone of the same race as blacks.
    There are MANY straights fighting for the rights of gays to marry. I am one of them. It is a civil rights issue.

    We all win when justice prevails for everyone.
    When you can't win an election outside of the south or mountain west, the answer to your problems is NOT "more of the same, but LOUDER!!!"


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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Maybe I need to be a bit more visual...

    Both heteros and gays gained the ability to marry someone of the same gender. Gays did not get anything that heteros already had, and heteros did not stay the same while gay's rights increased. They each got the same right, the same wait was placed on each side.

    If marriage rights were unbalanced/unequal before...



    ...then since each side got the same wait added, marriage rights are still unequal now.


    ======
    However, if marriage rights are equal now...



    ..then since each side was missing the same amount of wait before, marriage rights were equal then, too.

    Before AND after, the scales look the same, therefore gay-marriage is not a civil right issue.


    ***
    Do I need to expand further? When women got the right to vote, men got nothing. Something was added only to one side of the scale….
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-07-09 at 06:54 PM.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by The Jovial One View Post
    Here's your comment, altered to show how silly it is.

    There are MANY straights fighting for the rights of gays to marry. I am one of them. It is a civil rights issue.

    We all win when justice prevails for everyone.
    THAT'S MY POINT!!!

    Where are the heteros fighting for the right of heteros to marry other heteros of the same gender?

    I wasn't talking about heteros fighting for some other group, I was talking about heteros fighting for themselves.

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    Re: Vermont legalizes gay marriage with veto override

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Maybe I need to be a bit more visual...

    Both heteros and gays gained the ability to marry someone of the same gender. Gays did not get anything that heteros already had, and heteros did not stay the same while gay's rights increased. They each got the same right, the same wait was placed on each side.

    If marriage rights were unbalanced/unequal before...



    ...then since each side got the same wait added, then marriage rights are still unequal now.


    ======
    However, if marriage rights are equal now...



    ..then since each side was missing the same amount of wait, marriage rights were equal then, too.

    Before AND after, the scales look the same, therefore gay-marriage is not a civil right issue.


    ***
    Do I need to expand further? When women got the right to vote, men got nothing. Something was added only to one side of the scale….
    I must be missing your point.

    Without the right to marry, gays don't have a weight on the scale like straights do. By giving gays the right to marry, it balances the scale.
    When you can't win an election outside of the south or mountain west, the answer to your problems is NOT "more of the same, but LOUDER!!!"


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