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Thread: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

  1. #111
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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So, if the people who happened to build my computer in the factory just happened to be christians, my computer is a CHRISTIAN computer?
    My computer was made in Hell. They just changed the first letter to a "D".
    When you can't win an election outside of the south or mountain west, the answer to your problems is NOT "more of the same, but LOUDER!!!"


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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Like you would know anything about it. Damn woman, you're not American and you want to change the country you're in. You're the last person around here to lecture us on a set of principles.
    Ah, yes. And you, a bigoted and unyielding hyperpartisan, are the arbiter of principles? Ha!
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    So, if the people who happened to build my computer in the factory just happened to be christians, my computer is a CHRISTIAN computer?
    Depends....are you running Windows?

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm making an observation, not a strawman. Its a stated opinion based on the attitude exuded by numerous Libertarians on this forum and elsewhere in regards to the seeming omniscience that they seem to consiously or unconsiously attach to the founding fathers.

    If you disagree, so be it. This is the distinct attitude they give off to myself however. .
    Be so, not a big deal, the more I am an anti-Libertarian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, they may THINK that, that doesn't mean that. See, words have meanings. Zealot has a specific meaning. Stating that "This is a Christian Nation" does not mean "its a nation of Zealots". It just doesn't. Ignorant people or bigoted people or prejudice people that think "religious person = zealot" can THINK that, but by the definition of what a Zealot is it does not mean it. .
    Yes this what I am saying. bigoted people or prejudice people think that Christians = zealots = bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Saying we're a Christian Nation and basing that statement off the fact that many of the beliefs and many traditions of this nation, not just by the founders in government but by the first citizens of this country, were founded in Christian belief and due to the fact that the majority of the country identifies itself as Christian is one thing that can be said and legitimately debated. .
    We are debating and I asked about the necessity of obama to raise the debate in a certain place at a certain time and for the certain people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Saying we're a Nation of Christian Zealots would mean that the majority of this nation are excessively zealous and fanatical in their following of Christianity, which simply is not factually correct. .

    I wouldn’t know what you are saying.

    Following Christianity requires zealously and fanaticism as following any belief, atheism or Buddhism or Islam does.

    A brother Christian told me a joke:
    - Who is a fanatical Christian?
    – The one who believes in Christ slightly more than you do.

    Accusing me in zealously and fanaticism you will fall under the reciprocate accusation of the lack of real belief.

    The idea which leads atheists and Muslims to demand from the President to betray the majority of Americans, as well as American history and American foundations is that atheists and Muslims think that zealous and fanatical following of Christianity means a war against Islam and atheism, a war with military or similar means, it means vicious hatred - because atheists and Muslims judge by their own minds, their own religion and in their minds there may be no other way around. Since obama has a similar mind he has found a necessity to explain that we are not in the state of vicious hatred because Christianity and especially fanatical Christianity does not allow such a state, but because we are not Christians.


    Or may be I don’t understand what you are saying.
    Last edited by justone; 04-07-09 at 07:01 PM.

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by justone View Post
    Or may be I don’t understand what you are saying.
    Perhaps I do not understand what you are saying.

    Of a certainty I do not like what you are saying--too much the sounds of anger and of hate.

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    I do believe that Islam has shaped Obama.

    That is why he said Islam Has Shaped the U.S.A. He says...“We will convey,” said Barack Obama to the Turkish Parliament Monday, “our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world — including in my own country.”...

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...D-268E2A39A205
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    This is another example of why you weren't suposed to vote for Obama.
    Last edited by theTANTALIZER; 04-07-09 at 07:07 PM.

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by theTANTALIZER View Post
    That is why he said Islam Has Shaped the U.S.A. He says...“We will convey,” said Barack Obama to the Turkish Parliament Monday, “our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over the centuries to shape the world — including in my own country.”...

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...D-268E2A39A205
    What is wrong with having a deep appreciation for Islam?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Nothing, but if you formulate the US is an Islam nation then something is wrong here.
    Quote Originally Posted by EgoffTib View Post
    What is wrong with having a deep appreciation for Islam?

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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    How are you wrong....let us count the ways:

    1. Neither the word nor the concept is innately Christian.
    Secular
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Anglo-French seculer, from Late Latin saecularis, from saeculum the present world, from Latin, generation, age, century, world; akin to Welsh hoedl lifetime
    Date:
    14th century

    1 a: of or relating to the worldly or temporal <secular concerns> b: not overtly or specifically religious <secular music> c: not ecclesiastical or clerical <secular courts> <secular landowners>2: not bound by monastic vows or rules ; specifically : of, relating to, or forming clergy not belonging to a religious order or congregation <a secular priest>3 a: occurring once in an age or a century b: existing or continuing through ages or centuries c: of or relating to a long term of indefinite duration <secular inflation>
    2. Muslims have for centuries had separate secular and ecclesiastical authorities. The majority of Arab/Islamic nations have such separations: The Presidents of Egypt and Syria are not clerics, neither is King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud of Saudi Arabia, neither is King Abdullah II bin al-Hussein of Jordan.
    3. Atheists themselves are generally (sometimes rudely) aggressive in their championing of secular authority.
    4. Christian teachers from St. Paul on down have instructed the Christian faithful to sustain their faith throughout their daily lives; my understanding is that Jewish rabbi's offer similar instruction to their faithful; Buddhists are guided in practicing "simple mindfulness". Each after their own fashion, for every religion, "domination of their beliefs in each and every aspect of human activities is the goal of their activity."

    I need read no more than the Sermon on the Mount to marvel at the impiety of your intolerance and narrowmindness. (That whole bit about "blessed are the meek....")
    Picking a source – like dictionary, - which has to be void of historical details and perspective, because it is not the task of a dictionary to provide historical details or perspective clearly demonstrates your intellectual dishonesty.

    But please – pay attention to the bolded red. From Latin. The church teachings were written in Latin, then each language has translated them.

    Secular is Svetsky in Russian (translated from both Greek and Latin in the same way) , Anglo-French seculer Welsh hoedl - it is in the same way referring to activities outside the Church, activities which are not regulated by the Bible, are not belonging to the affairs of the Church, which are not spiritual, which are worldly.

    Laila called it The belief . I called it the concept. Neither belief nor Concept are a word. When instead of addressing concept you address the word, that clearly proves that you are spinning into an intellectual dishonesty. You are not even wrong, you are intellectualy dishonest.

    The concept of secular or worldly activities and the separation of them from spiritual or church activities had arisen from the need of Christianity to address the related words of the Book – leave Cesar’ s for Cesar and God’s for God - for just just an example. Atheists, Muslims and others did not have such a Book and such a necessity. JC was not a statesman or official or a warrior, he left those matters outside his church, and not as forbidden but as secular ones.


    2. Quran details state organizations and wars, as Mohammed was a statesman and warier. Modern Turkey, which is in the subject was designed by its father as a secular state.

    3. There was no Muslims or atheists at the foundation of the US, the less championing Muslims or atheists were there. Atheists do not champion for secularity, which is freedom of the church and freedom of the government officials to follow their religion, they champion for atheism, for non-acceptance of religion by the government and in the government, - or in the present state of the US - for non-acceptance of the spiritual needs of the vast majority of Americans.

    4. Paul did not ever mentioned organization of a state or government, nor he demanded to follow Christianity while using toilet seats or writing a car driver’s manual. My understanding is that Jewish rabbi's does not offer similar instruction to their faithful. Only for atheists ‘’domination of their beliefs in each and every aspect of human activities is the goal of their activity’’.

    Using the Sermon to insult an opponent in a debate is quite a perversion, the same perversion as when you find yourself meek while addressing me with ‘’impiety of your intolerance and narrowmindness’’; there is no meekness is in your words, but a demonstration of a reality comprehension problem. If you wish to be blessed as a meek you don’t start from throwing insults or what you think are insults. I am intolerant, JC was intolerant, too; it is not like he said ‘’blessed be the murderers, thieves and child molesters’’.

    Your misrepresentation of the Sermon is another demonstration of your reading comprehension problem, - The message of the Sermon is: REJOICE. Read. And Rejoice.

  10. #120
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    Re: "We do not consider ourselves a christian nation", says Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by theTANTALIZER View Post
    Nothing, but if you formulate the US is an Islam nation then something is wrong here.
    Who said that the US is an Islamic Nation?
    "An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it." - Gandhi

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