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Thread: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

  1. #61
    Student thabigred's Avatar
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Kim is bad, Mexico is nowhere near as bad as NK. Mexico has TV, radio, etc. with multiple stations. NK has ONE govt owned media outlet....and all it puts out is propaganda.
    The reason the USSR failed, and the reason Mexico does so poorly, is the lack of a substantial middle class. You can't sustain any country with a few very rich and the rest being peasants.
    If THAT isn't clear to you, there is something wrong with the brainwash cycle that has messed up your thinking...
    Almost everyone in USSR were middle class citizens, and no that is not a viable reason, there is no evidence to come to this conclusion.

    That is a stereotype middle class in the united states have come up with the better understand something they obviously do not understand in the first place.

    Also if you truly thing our media is any better than North Korea's I have something to tell you, no media is truly free. It is just at what extent one media is more free than another.

    You don't find objective articles in newspapers or on news channels, you find jumbled subjective responses that have interests that conflict with making the news truly free.

    At least North Korea is openly running state run news that has it's interest at heart instead of American news that is not objective yet runs around like it is.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYlyb1Bx9Ic"]YouTube - The Myth of the Liberal Media: The Propaganda Model of News[/ame]

  2. #62
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    1. America was the main reason for the Soviet unions collapse, they could not compete with the US. Took on large debts which could not be re-payed to restart there industries, which was not sustainable. The soviet union was not giving them handouts, they were economic partners. This idea that the relationship with North Korea and Russia is just not true, they were economic partners.
    Them's the breaks. If only it weren't for those greeeeeeeeedy capitalists the Commust Party oligarchs could have conquered and enslaved the entire world... Boohoo...

    "'If only, if only,' the woodpecker sighs, "The bark on the tree was just a little bit softer."

    What did Russia get in return from their obstinate little "partner" in SE Asia?

    This distaste for ideas that you do not agree with is blinding your judgment, this idea that capitalism is much more robust, flexible, and efficient are unfair to other systems.
    I'm sorry it's "unfair" to the poor little systems. That's life.

    As in many capitalist countries namely the one I keep bringing up Mexico, that is a country that is not robust, flexible or efficient at all.
    Mexico in much better shape than NK.

    I think capitalism is a good system, but saying what you are saying is considered a stereotype of the system.

    All things should be judged on a case by case bases, and in North Korea's case, they have problems with industry because they lost there largest economic partner.
    Show me one centrally planned, socialist economy that's lasted for any period of time without resulting in stagnation. Everybody's realized this system is doomed to failure.

    2. 5% of GDP in America accounts for over 35% of the budget, more than any other government program so save me the comparison. America spends vastly to much on military, more than any country on the face of the earth.
    What's your point? Defense is one of the few legitimate roles of government in the US.

    The USSR may not of been efficient, but what it did do was allow in the span of 1 generation bring most of Russia from the 3rd world living conditions to what is considered 2nd world. That is unheard of with any system.
    They could have done a lot better had the chosen a different path - namely one that didn't involve tyranny and genocide.

    The problem with the system rose when energy, a commodity which they could not obtain efficiently lead the nation to economic collapse. It was not centralizing the government or anything of the like, the US won the war over fossil fuels and pushed them to collapse.
    Says who? How? Why?

    Because of this, whether that was a good thing or not, tons of countries are back to 3rd world conditions, including much of North Korea.

    Just as building bridges to no where (in America) in the grand scheme of things does not do much to offset the budget, building missiles that can reach the US in the grand scheme of things does not do much to offset there already weak budget.

    By forcing the Norks to comply to what we want them to do will only do exactly what it did to Germany after WWI...

    Push toward Nazism or something worse.
    Here's where we invoke Godwin's Law and compare democracy, justice, and liberty to Nazism. Truly something to be proud of...

    You really think Kim is bad, wait tell he is overthrown and a true tyrant takes control of North Korea.
    Kim is little more than a puppet leader. He is a TOOL used by the KWP to placate the masses. His father, Kim il-sung, had real power. Kim does not.

  3. #63
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    Almost everyone in USSR were middle class citizens, and no that is not a viable reason, there is no evidence to come to this conclusion.

    That is a stereotype middle class in the united states have come up with the better understand something they obviously do not understand in the first place.

    Also if you truly thing our media is any better than North Korea's I have something to tell you, no media is truly free. It is just at what extent one media is more free than another.

    You don't find objective articles in newspapers or on news channels, you find jumbled subjective responses that have interests that conflict with making the news truly free.

    At least North Korea is openly running state run news that has it's interest at heart instead of American news that is not objective yet runs around like it is.

    YouTube - The Myth of the Liberal Media: The Propaganda Model of News
    At least in America Noam Chomsky can sit there and blab about the flaws of the American media.

    So can I:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-m...ournalism.html

    Compare this to NK where they still believe the US attacked NK and and they have a satellite orbiting the earth broadcasting revolutionary songs. The credibility gap between the free media and state-run media, particularly the KCNA is enormous.

    "Evaluating countries is senseless and I would never put things in those terms, but that some of America's advances, particularly in the area of free speech, that have been achieved by centuries of popular struggle, are to be admired." -Good ol' Noam
    Last edited by BulletWounD; 04-08-09 at 07:09 PM.

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    Student thabigred's Avatar
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletWounD View Post
    Them's the breaks. If only it weren't for those greeeeeeeeedy capitalists the Commust Party oligarchs could have conquered and enslaved the entire world... Boohoo...

    I'm sorry it's "unfair" to the poor little systems. That's life.

    Show me one centrally planned, socialist economy that's lasted for any period of time without resulting in stagnation. Everybody's realized this system is doomed to failure.

    What's your point? Defense is one of the few legitimate roles of government in the US.

    Here's where we invoke Godwin's Law and compare democracy, justice, and liberty to Nazism. Truly something to be proud of...
    1. Your immaturity in your attacks is not helping your argument, it takes a entry level child in the a history class in grade school to realize that America was the leading cause of the downfall of USSR.

    2. Can you show me a system that has not stagnated at all at any point?

    No you can't. There has never been a full proof system, you tend to learn that if you look at how living things function with each other that life tends to make things harder for itself over time.

    Eventually all things are doomed to fail, it is just at what point will they fail and how do you cope with such things.

    Capitalism works in cycles, and when it fails to work properly people don't give up like USSR did. Why this is so and why capitalism's proliferation is more a testament to capitalism is the fairest system. It has nothing to do with capitalism efficiency or robustness that you claim, it has to do with it being the most natural system. Like you said life sucks, and naturally in a system where every man is out for himself feels more beneficial to society as a whole.

    When capitalism fails it is ok because we all are for ourselves, when communism fails it is somehow to do with the actions of the leaders in power. Guess what, all things are destined to fail, the USSR would had failed eventually, just as America will fail eventually again.

    No I did not compare nazism to anything, I said that if we continue to expect them to play by our rules they will push towards nazisms.

  5. #65
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Communism is bad. Because, basically, they dont have any ability and just doing noisy works to get foods and money.

    They are gangsters want to eat good things of rich countries.

    They are North Korea, VietNam, Russia, China, ...





    Last edited by truth009; 04-08-09 at 07:58 PM.
    In a night, or in a day,In a vision, or in none,Is it therefore the less gone? All that we see or seem Is but a dream within a dream.

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    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    1. Your immaturity in your attacks is not helping your argument, it takes a entry level child in the a history class in grade school to realize that America was the leading cause of the downfall of USSR.
    You can blame it on America or you can blame it on the decisions made by the leaders of the USSR. I think the truth is somewhere in between. The only way the Communist Party could have succeeded is if they faced no competition. This scenario is completely unrealistic. Subtract America and the fight would have been against the fascists and who knows what else.

    2. Can you show me a system that has not stagnated at all at any point?

    No you can't. There has never been a full proof system, you tend to learn that if you look at how living things function with each other that life tends to make things harder for itself over time.
    Nope. Nothing's perfect because people are not perfect. The agility of the western system allowed the West to keep the USSR off balance.

    Eventually all things are doomed to fail, it is just at what point will they fail and how do you cope with such things.

    Capitalism works in cycles, and when it fails to work properly people don't give up like USSR did. Why this is so and why capitalism's proliferation is more a testament to capitalism is the fairest system. It has nothing to do with capitalism efficiency or robustness that you claim, it has to do with it being the most natural system. Like you said life sucks, and naturally in a system where every man is out for himself feels more beneficial to society as a whole.
    You said it, not me.

    When capitalism fails it is ok because we all are for ourselves, when communism fails it is somehow to do with the actions of the leaders in power. Guess what, all things are destined to fail, the USSR would had failed eventually, just as America will fail eventually again.
    But will America fail so catastrophically that it results in a collapse of the system? Will it be the fault of the system or the leaders? (Obama, Congress, etc.)

    No I did not compare nazism to anything, I said that if we continue to expect them to play by our rules they will push towards nazisms.
    Refusing to give in to their terroristic demands isn't "forcing" them to do anything. They've backed themselves into a corner.

  7. #67
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    1. Your immaturity in your attacks is not helping your argument, it takes a entry level child in the a history class in grade school to realize that America was the leading cause of the downfall of USSR.
    2. Capitalism works in cycles, and when it fails to work properly people don't give up like USSR did. Why this is so and why capitalism's proliferation is more a testament to capitalism is the fairest system. It has nothing to do with capitalism efficiency or robustness that you claim, it has to do with it being the most natural system. Like you said life sucks, and naturally in a system where every man is out for himself feels more beneficial to society as a whole.

    When capitalism fails it is ok because we all are for ourselves, when communism fails it is somehow to do with the actions of the leaders in power. Guess what, all things are destined to fail, the USSR would had failed eventually, just as America will fail eventually again.

    No I did not compare nazism to anything, I said that if we continue to expect them to play by our rules they will push towards nazisms.
    You are either way too young to know what you are talking about, or way too propagandized, or both....
    I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Or are you some highly educated college professor that we should listen to?
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Oh yeah. Lets keep trying to convince the third world that the only people that know how to handle these weapons are coincidentally the ones which already have an arsenal. If I was North Korean I would agree with any country pushing me that I would stop the program and destroy my nukes or technology behind it...only...if they did as well, but playing to a double standard, forget it.

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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.


  10. #70
    Educator BulletWounD's Avatar
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    Re: North Korean Rocket fails, hours after claiming success.

    Quote Originally Posted by New World Order View Post
    Oh yeah. Lets keep trying to convince the third world that the only people that know how to handle these weapons are coincidentally the ones which already have an arsenal. If I was North Korean I would agree with any country pushing me that I would stop the program and destroy my nukes or technology behind it...only...if they did as well, but playing to a double standard, forget it.
    NATO, Russia, and China need their weapons to dissuade a first strike. Nobody's going to nuke North Korea unless they nuke us first. There's no reason for them to have them.

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