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Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

bub said:
None. And I'm not a professional. I just find it quite logical.
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food for thought


* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.19
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
How is this related to my commentary? people passed judgment on the burger king guy. Here 14 people let themselves get shot, not only was no one armed, but words like "cower" and "hid" are the words used here. it dismays me to know end that we teach ourselves to be meek when the wolf comes for the slaughter....
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Easy. People reacted the way they did to the burger king guy due to the situation at hand. Without knowing the facts of this case then how exactly are we supposed to react differently to this, or change our mind on the burger king one.

From all signs, this was ENTIRELY different than the Burger King incident from the initial facts coming out. So no, this doesn't change my opinion of the brave, yet incredibly foolish and reckless, guy in the Burger King because the facts thus far are entirely different.

Yes you are so wonderful you want to think of the poor people first. you already said that. Are you suggesting I don't?
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No, no. Not at all. I just think that, much like WillRockWell, you don't really care to discuss the topic of the news but instead took it, immedietely ignored the actual facts or lack of facts in this story, and tried to reason how you could use it to promote one of your hyper partisan talking points even if it had no baring on THIS particular instance at all.

Nothing about you not thinking about the people first. Just that like Will, the story is secondary to being a vehicle for you to shout out your agenda, regardless of the facts.

I believe Rush would call you a Drive By Poster.
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
food for thought


* Gun-free England not such a utopia after all. According to the BBC News, handgun crime in the United Kingdom rose by 40% in the two years after it passed its draconian gun ban in 1997.18 And according to a United Nations study, British citizens are more likely to become a victim of crime than are people in the United States. The 2000 report shows that the crime rate in England is higher than the crime rates of 16 other industrialized nations, including the United States.19
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There are other criters. Don't you find it strange that in a few weeks there have been several rampages like that? The economic crisis seems to be an important factor.

I guess the economic situation of people in Manchester or Liverpool is simply much worse than the average economic situation in the USA.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
How is this related to my commentary? people passed judgment on the burger king guy. Here 14 people let themselves get shot, not only was no one armed, but words like "cower" and "hid" are the words used here. it dismays me to know end that we teach ourselves to be meek when the wolf comes for the slaughter....

Like the VT tech thing, we have neutered the people and prepared them for the slaughter......

Yes you are so wonderful you want to think of the poor people first. you already said that. Are you suggesting I don't?
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Now hold on a minute. LET THEMSELVES GET SHOT?!!! This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have heard anyone here, say. Maybe you worded what you wanted to say, wrong. If not, blaming the victim, Reverend? A pretty woman who was raped, let or brought it on herself? This is the kind of rhetoric that makes those like me, someone who supports the 2nd Amendment, but chooses to not carry a gun, look at some folks as extremist gun-nuts who have little respect for those with different opinions.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Now hold on a minute. LET THEMSELVES GET SHOT?!!! This has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have heard anyone here, say. Maybe you worded what you wanted to say, wrong. If not, blaming the victim, Reverend? A pretty woman who was raped, let or brought it on herself? This is the kind of rhetoric that makes those like me, someone who supports the 2nd Amendment, but chooses to not carry a gun, look at some folks as extremist gun-nuts who have little respect for those with different opinions.
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so I am a gun nut because I think in society today we teach ourselves to be meek in front of the wolf? Talk about disrespect of someone elses opinion.


My point is irrelevant of the gun. my point is, and simply, how does one man with 2 pistols kill 14 people? Society today teaches us to sit there and hope for the best. putting up a fight is not what we teach, we teach submission.

It's a shame. It's a damn shame.
 
Zyphlin said:
Easy. People reacted the way they did to the burger king guy due to the situation at hand. Without knowing the facts of this case then how exactly are we supposed to react differently to this, or change our mind on the burger king one.

From all signs, this was ENTIRELY different than the Burger King incident from the initial facts coming out. So no, this doesn't change my opinion of the brave, yet incredibly foolish and reckless, guy in the Burger King because the facts thus far are entirely different.



No, no. Not at all. I just think that, much like WillRockWell, you don't really care to discuss the topic of the news but instead took it, immedietely ignored the actual facts or lack of facts in this story, and tried to reason how you could use it to promote one of your hyper partisan talking points even if it had no baring on THIS particular instance at all.

Nothing about you not thinking about the people first. Just that like Will, the story is secondary to being a vehicle for you to shout out your agenda, regardless of the facts.

I believe Rush would call you a Drive By Poster.
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Really now? so this is "cry forums" not "debate politics" where we come in and simply cry over the news and offer up little in the way of discussion?


Please, comparing me to will is an insult, and you miss my point, one that I think you agreed with me on a year or so ago on the VT shooting.


That we teach ourselve submission, and that this leads to one man with 2 pistols killing 14 people.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
so I am a gun nut because I think in society today we teach ourselves to be meek in front of the wolf? Talk about disrespect of someone elses opinion.


My point is irrelevant of the gun. my point is, and simply, how does one man with 2 pistols kill 14 people? Society today teaches us to sit there and hope for the best. putting up a fight is not what we teach, we teach submission.

It's a shame. It's a damn shame.
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No, Reverend, you are making a blanket black or white statement, Anyone who chooses to not have a gun is being or has been taught to be meek. That is a ridiculous statement and an inaccurate value judgment. Notice your annoyance at my "gun-nut" comment? I did that specifically to get your ire, illustrating my point. Before you make silly all encompassing value judgments, it would be a good idea to understand motivations and thoughts behind one's position. I understand yours and respect that. I expect the same from you.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Really now? so this is "cry forums" not "debate politics" where we come in and simply cry over the news and offer up little in the way of discussion?


Please, comparing me to will is an insult, and you miss my point, one that I think you agreed with me on a year or so ago on the VT shooting.


That we teach ourselve submission, and that this leads to one man with 2 pistols killing 14 people.
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I agree.

Those who believe in gun control have nothing to say because this is a snapshot of what they would have as the rule.

An unarmed citizenry at the mercy of an armed committed deviant/criminal.

The expectation of peace and tranquility is an illusion we all wish was the reality but wishing doesn't make it so.

Those people lived with that expectation and found out it was an illusion.

Some of us look at this and still cling to the illusion.

When some armed criminal chooses to make you a statistic the police will not prevent him from doing so.

And if you refuse to prevent him from taking your life then it is your choice not to have been armed and ready that allowed him to do so.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
so I am a gun nut because I think in society today we teach ourselves to be meek in front of the wolf? Talk about disrespect of someone elses opinion.


My point is irrelevant of the gun. my point is, and simply, how does one man with 2 pistols kill 14 people? Society today teaches us to sit there and hope for the best. putting up a fight is not what we teach, we teach submission.

It's a shame. It's a damn shame.
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Like I said, some use these tragedies as nothing more than what may be described as retrained jubilee because it gives them an excuse pound their barbaric philosophies even more. A damn shame is accurate.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Really now? so this is "cry forums" not "debate politics" where we come in and simply cry over the news and offer up little in the way of discussion?
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No, but this is the Breaking News forum. I figured, with that being said, people would actually be discussing ACTUAL breaking news. You know, the actual FACTS surrounding the NEWS. Not just wild assumptions that are used to spring board into whatever random partisan talking point you and others like you in here wanted to rant on about. My mistake. But I'm sure you'll continue to just ignore what I"m actually saying and cry about me just wanting people to express sad feelings about those involved. :roll:

As I've said, from the beginning. Discussion and debate on this is useful, but while its in the BREAKING NEWS section why not discuss the actual FACTS of THIS news rather than some wild assumptions that aren't trying to honestly figure out what happened here but want to USE this to manipulate the conversation to the point where they want to go.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, Reverend, you are making a blanket black or white statement, Anyone who chooses to not have a gun is being or has been taught to be meek. That is a ridiculous statement and an inaccurate value judgment. Notice your annoyance at my "gun-nut" comment? I did that specifically to get your ire, illustrating my point. Before you make silly all encompassing value judgments, it would be a good idea to understand motivations and thoughts behind one's position. I understand yours and respect that. I expect the same from you.
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So you admit to baiting me. noted.


You also build a strawman, I never said that people choosing not to have a gun are meak.


Get back to me when you want to be honest in our discussion.
 
bhkad said:
I agree.

Those who believe in gun control have nothing to say because this is a snapshot of what they would have as the rule.

An unarmed citizenry at the mercy of an armed committed deviant/criminal.

The expectation of peace and tranquility is an illusion we all wish was the reality but wishing doesn't make it so.

Those people lived with that expectation and found out it was an illusion.

Some of us look at this and still cling to the illusion.

When some armed criminal chooses to make you a statistic the police will not prevent him from doing so.

And if you refuse to prevent him from taking your life then it is your choice not to have been armed and ready that allowed him to do so.
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The gun is a tool, what is a shame gun or no gun is our society laying down to the wolf. how does 14 people get shot by 1 guy with 2 handguns? did anyone even attempt to fight back? the articles talk about hiding and cowering......

This is a shame.
 
Zyphlin said:
No, but this is the Breaking News forum. I figured, with that being said, people would actually be discussing ACTUAL breaking news. You know, the actual FACTS surrounding the NEWS. Not just wild assumptions that are used to spring board into whatever random partisan talking point you and others like you in here wanted to rant on about. My mistake. But I'm sure you'll continue to just ignore what I"m actually saying and cry about me just wanting people to express sad feelings about those involved. :roll:

As I've said, from the beginning. Discussion and debate on this is useful, but while its in the BREAKING NEWS section why not discuss the actual FACTS of THIS news rather than some wild assumptions that aren't trying to honestly figure out what happened here but want to USE this to manipulate the conversation to the point where they want to go.
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You mean breaking news like the Palin and her invite to speak somewhere? :ssst:
 
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SkyCore said:
Like I said, some use these tragedies as nothing more than what may be described as retrained jubilee because it gives them an excuse pound their barbaric philosophies even more. A damn shame is accurate.
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what are you cackling on about?
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So you admit to baiting me. noted.
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No, I admit to using an analogy to get a response. It worked fine. Hopefully, you now understand how your black or white comments can be inciting.


You also build a strawman, I never said that people choosing not to have a gun are meak.
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No strawman. I don't make this stuff up. Please explain this post:

Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Here 14 people let themselves get shot, not only was no one armed, but words like "cower" and "hid" are the words used here. it dismays me to know end that we teach ourselves to be meek when the wolf comes for the slaughter....
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Get back to me when you want to be honest in our discussion.
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Get back to me when you can see how your position is extremist and inciting.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
The gun is a tool, what is a shame gun or no gun is our society laying down to the wolf. how does 14 people get shot by 1 guy with 2 handguns? did anyone even attempt to fight back? the articles talk about hiding and cowering......

This is a shame.
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I agree. :neutral:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, I admit to using an analogy to get a response. It worked fine. Hopefully, you now understand how your black or white comments can be inciting.
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When I used an analogy to make a point during the Presidential campaign you got embarrassed and all bent out of shape so badly that you threw the thread into the sewer.

Now you expect to use analogy and have people respond to it like adults?

I see.

:neutral:
 
bhkad said:
When I used an analogy to make a point during the Presidential campaign you got embarrassed and all bent out of shape so badly that you threw the thread into the sewer.

Now you expect to use analogy and have people respond to it like adults?

I see.

:neutral:
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1) I was not bent out of shape and if there was any embarrassment it was for the upstairs part of the forum that your thread showed up there. Further, if I recall your thread correctly,the entire thread was nothing more than bait. Analogies can be used in different ways.

2) Let's be clear about this. You want to address me as a poster, be my guest. You start getting into moderation issues and you start walking on thin ice.

3) I expect that when people are confronted on hyperbole they will either respond by admitting it, explaining it, or acting out. I am hoping that the Reverend chooses door #2 or #1. I'd prefer that he choose #2 and clarify his position. If not, I can accept #1.
 
Zyphlin said:
Come on, can we get even a couple posts into this and figuring out whats going on before it becomes a "guns are bad" "Guns are good" rant fest.

What a horrible situation, regardless of how it came about. Anyone in New York maybe getting more up to the minute news?
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OK ...So here we are two days later, and we do know more. It wasn`t just some gun crazed fool out partying. It was a gun owner who had lost his job. That`s worth a rant..., YES / NO ? The number of persons doing the multi-murder rage, each week, is accelerating at a rate that will shock those of you who insist on clogging your brains with MEDIA TRUTHS. Try a little reality-shock. Don`t go to the store... no, don`t go to the store at all. Don`t go to the store for weeks on end. When you do, make it a "food bank ". Now , take your food to the back yard where you`ve pitched a tent, build a campfire,cook the food, go to bed, ( NO TV there chumly), no shower, just go to bed. This flavor of TYRANNY is defining a new use for the bullets people bought to deffend against, you guessed it, TYRANNY (of old). I am NOT defending this guy,or any of the others who have engaged in mass-frustrated-killings (this week), I do believe in the "obligation" (the constitution actualy does describe it as an obligation) "to keep and bare arms should this or any other government,(lets change that to entity here), become tyrannous over the people". The entity today is YOU, ...US,...WE,...EVERYONE,... people, our society, became the most selfish, inconciderate, uncareing, vicious bunch of MONEY WHORES in the history of the world, in the last very few years. Look for much, much, much more, of the same, in the weeks, months, and possibly years to come, as this script isn`t well written, and Americans didn`t want to become third world, and "fair in the ways of socialism". Y`all enjoy what your econo-blather hath wrought. What I believe will happen soon, is the streets will smoke. We the people are becomeing that hot over the "RIGHT TO EVEN EXIST". When you move into that tent, you`ll begin to understand 20 million people fireing guns in all directions, and it is about the strugle to EXIST. Interestingly , this fine sunday morn, one of the networks told a story from the depresion (1929), and what people did on Wal-Street, with a wagon loaded with dynamite.:2wave:
 
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
So you admit to baiting me. noted.


You also build a strawman, I never said that people choosing not to have a gun are meak.


Get back to me when you want to be honest in our discussion.
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(Posted by RH)

"Here 14 people let themselves get shot, not only was no one armed, but words like "cower" and "hid" are the words used here. it dismays me to know end that we teach ourselves to be meek when the wolf comes for the slaughter....

Like the VT tech thing, we have neutered the people and prepared them for the slaughter......"


It was pointed out none of the victims had guns followed by saying that is proof we are trained to be meek and being prepared for the slaughter, so yes, the position is quite clear: be meek or be armed.

Don't accuse others of being dishonest simply because you can't be.

The main problem is trying to imply being meek means being weak. It takes a much stronger person to be meek, but most gun lovers have no idea how to begin to relate. The weakest people are those who rely on guns for resolutions. Be it an armed robber who's too lazy to work for the money or the NRA crowd that lives in a basket case of fear.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, I admit to using an analogy to get a response. It worked fine. Hopefully, you now understand how your black or white comments can be inciting.




No strawman. I don't make this stuff up. Please explain this post:





Get back to me when you can see how your position is extremist and inciting.
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Awesome, you take something I say out of context, and use it to continue your strawman. ignoring other posts I make that explain that comment.

You saw this post, this explaination:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...ges-taken-binghamton-ny-7.html#post1057981365

but instead of honest discussion you want to continue this line of baiting, fine by me, i can play any way YOU want.

Get back to me when you want an honest discussion.
 
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