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Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

FlyOnTheWall said:
Great.... It is impossible, even if everybody was locked and loaded. The wolves would then carry some sort of gassing agent to stop the militant sheep before leading them to the slaughter. Then the argument would be that the sheep do not carry gas masks and let themselves die because they were not prepared. :mrgreen:
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Or cars or doctors. Both kill moreso than guns. ;)
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
I am advocating for nobody to be disarmed. I am merely criticizing the sheep/wolf analogy and the remark that these people were sheep and died due their own meekness.
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Let me ask you...


What would you do....


Your in a class and you hear gunshots, people screaming, and you notice a gunman walking your way?
 
Goobieman said:
You don't have to like my response, but you DO have to accept that it IS my response.

If you don't -- well, I don't really care. MY post was directed at WR, and HE knows that I am right.
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For the third or fourth time...he was NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL GUN OWNERS.

But hey, feel free to re-write his post.
 
SkyCore said:
For the third or fourth time...he was NOT TALKING ABOUT ALL GUN OWNERS.
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Read the post I quoted. Its pretty clear he was.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
What did you say then. Thanks.
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The point is that the attacker will always have the upper hand in these types of situations because the attack is not expected. How does a receptionist defend against a person who pulls out a gun and blows them away? The receptionist could have had a gun in the drawer and it would not have helped. To call this victim a sheep is absurd.

I find it disturbing that you even questioned if some blame should be put back on the victims. I find it funny that you highlight some of the victims names who you think could have defended themselves without even knowing what happened inside the classroom. I have not seen any reports of anybody describing what happened in the classroom, have you? Who is to say that they did try to rush the killer and were shot trying? Perhaps you have read something I have not?

I agree with Zyphin that this has been politicized before any details have been released.
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
The point is that the attacker will always have the upper hand in these types of situations because the attack is not expected. How does a receptionist defend against a person who pulls out a gun and blows them away? The receptionist could have had a gun in the drawer and it would not have helped. To call this victim a sheep is absurd.
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I didn't. This would be a straw man.

number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17, now that's a different story. At some point we all have to take charge of our lives.

He fired 89 shots. he had to reload. This is a pause. Why did no one take that opportunity to try and save themselves?

It is tragic.


I find it disturbing that you even questioned if some blame should be put back on the victims. I find it funny that you highlight some of the victims names who you think could have defended themselves without even knowing what happened inside the classroom. I have not seen any reports of anybody describing what happened in the classroom, have you? Who is to say that they did try to rush the killer and were shot trying? Perhaps you have read something I have not?
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It is disturbing. It is more disturbing though that 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 may not have put up a fight.

I agree with Zyphin that this has been politicized before any details have been released.
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If you notice, I am not being political at all, I have actually tried to take the gun as a defense tool out of the equation to highlight what I see as a major problem with our society today.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I didn't. This would be a straw man.

number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17, now that's a different story. At some point we all have to take charge of our lives.

He fired 89 shots. he had to reload. This is a pause. Why did no one take that opportunity to try and save themselves?

It is tragic.





It is disturbing. It is more disturbing though that 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 may not have put up a fight.




If you notice, I am not being political at all, I have actually tried to take the gun as a defense tool out of the equation to highlight what I see as a major problem with our society today.
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That's the victim's mentality... "not me, why me, thank god it wasn't me.".

**** people who wouldn't take every opportunity they could to help others in such a situation, they deserve their death... when it comes to them.. that's called karma.

I'd rather die on my feet trying, than be gunned down like some pathetic ass ***** cowardly begging for my life.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
I didn't. This would be a straw man.
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No straw man.
Without uttering a word, Voong shot two receptionists, killing one, then strode into a classroom where an English lesson was being held and shot dead another 12 people before turning the gun on himself, police chief Joseph Zikuski said.
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Reverend_Hellh0und said:
number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17, now that's a different story. At some point we all have to take charge of our lives.

He fired 89 shots. he had to reload. This is a pause. Why did no one take that opportunity to try and save themselves?

It is tragic.





It is disturbing. It is more disturbing though that 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17 may not have put up a fight.




If you notice, I am not being political at all, I have actually tried to take the gun as a defense tool out of the equation to highlight what I see as a major problem with our society today.
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You criticize my comment as a straw man then post this? Then you justify it by "may have not put up a fight" :mrgreen: The fact is you dont know if they put up a fight and have decided to to assume that they did not....

The 89 shots is also a laugher. He could have incapacitated all of his victims without reloading, reloaded and started firing at will....I cant believe you used this as another attack on the victims to paint them as sheep.
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
The point is that the attacker will always have the upper hand in these types of situations because the attack is not expected. How does a receptionist defend against a person who pulls out a gun and blows them away? The receptionist could have had a gun in the drawer and it would not have helped. To call this victim a sheep is absurd.

I find it disturbing that you even questioned if some blame should be put back on the victims. I find it funny that you highlight some of the victims names who you think could have defended themselves without even knowing what happened inside the classroom. I have not seen any reports of anybody describing what happened in the classroom, have you? Who is to say that they did try to rush the killer and were shot trying? Perhaps you have read something I have not?

I agree with Zyphin that this has been politicized before any details have been released.
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Referring to innocent victims as "sheep", insisting violence would decrease if everyone carried guns in spite of evidence to the contrary, insisting that guns cannot kill because they are inanimate objects, comparing firearm deaths to highway fatalities...these are all the last, desperate excuses of an untenable position. Gun owners cannot join the discussion about keeping weapons out of the hands of deranged people because to do so would enter the "slippery slope" of gun control, which must end with federal confiscation agents at the door.
Quite simply, these people cannot discuss the issue. So it will be decided without them.
 
stevenb said:
That's the victim's mentality... "not me, why me, thank god it wasn't me.".

**** people who wouldn't take every opportunity they could to help others in such a situation, they deserve their death... when it comes to them.. that's called karma.

I'd rather die on my feet trying, than be gunned down like some pathetic ass ***** cowardly begging for my life.
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Tough guy I see.

compassionate as well :shock:

You make assumptions without facts. Seems to be the norm here.
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
No straw man.


You criticize my comment as a straw man then post this? Then you justify it by "may have not put up a fight" :mrgreen: The fact is you dont know if they put up a fight and have decided to to assume that they did not....

The 89 shots is also a laugher. He could have incapacitated all of his victims without reloading, reloaded and started firing at will....I cant believe you used this as another attack on the victims to paint them as sheep.
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I'm sorry, I'm pretty good at reloading my firearm(s) under duress.. but I've trained for a very long time on that..

your average joe, not so much.

The fact of the matter is there were probably HUNDREDS of people in the area... that could have stopped this person at any given time while he was reloading. They all chose not to help, so they're in my opinion just as much at fault as the person pulling the trigger.

Even with a gun, 5-6 people can disable 1 person... all it takes is people with some ****ing guts and respect for their fellow man.
 
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WillRockwell said:
Referring to innocent victims as "sheep", insisting violence would decrease if everyone carried guns in spite of evidence to the contrary, insisting that guns cannot kill because they are inanimate objects, comparing firearm deaths to highway fatalities...these are all the last, desperate excuses of an untenable position. Gun owners cannot join the discussion about keeping weapons out of the hands of deranged people because to do so would enter the "slippery slope" of gun control, which must end with federal confiscation agents at the door.
Quite simply, these people cannot discuss the issue. So it will be decided without them.
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Do you ever debate honestly?
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
Tough guy I see.

compassionate as well :shock:

You make assumptions without facts. Seems to be the norm here.
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Not a tough guy, but I refuse to cower in the corner like a ***** and become a statistic like others.

Assumptions without facts? if he had any other devices / deterrants with him.. MAYBE your incapacitate argument would hold.. but, no articles mention that... and they'd be all over that ****.

The plain and simple matter of fact is the people who he was shooting were cowards, and they obviously didn't do anything to stop this person from ending their lives... hell, they probably didn't even try.
 
stevenb said:
Not a tough guy, but I refuse to cower in the corner like a ***** and become a statistic like others.

Assumptions without facts? if he had any other devices / deterrants with him.. MAYBE your incapacitate argument would hold.. but, no articles mention that... and they'd be all over that ****.

The plain and simple matter of fact is the people who he was shooting were cowards, and they obviously didn't do anything to stop this person from ending their lives... hell, they probably didn't even try.
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I bet if given the opportunity, you would eat your young....:mrgreen:
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
I bet if given the opportunity, you would eat your young....:mrgreen:
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Keep preaching the victim's mantra buddy.

Maybe someday someone like me with the drive to survive will keep your ass from dying...

Until then, keep preaching.
 
WillRockwell said:
Referring to innocent victims as "sheep", insisting violence would decrease if everyone carried guns in spite of evidence to the contrary....
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Show this to be true.

insisting that guns cannot kill because they are inanimate objects
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A gun , like all other inanimite objects, is incapable of doing --anything-- on its own, and so insisting that a gun, on its own, cannot kill anyone is completely sound.

Disagree?
Place an unloaded gun on a table. Sit there until it shoots you.

comparing firearm deaths to highway fatalities
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Machines that are designed to kill are involved with fewer deaths than those that are not. Clearly, the machines NOT designed to kill need to be looked at first.

These are all the last, desperate excuses of an untenable position.
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Speaking of untenabnle psoitions... when are you going to try to defend yours?
Or have you, yet again, run away?
 
Goobieman said:
Show this to be true.


A gun , like all other inanimite objects, is incapable of doing --anything-- on its own, and so insisting that a gun, on its own, cannot kill anyone is completely sound.

Disagree?
Place an unloaded gun on a table. Sit there until it shoots you.


Machines that are designed to kill are involved with fewer deaths than those that are not. Clearly, the machines NOT designed to kill need to be looked at first.


Speaking of untenabnle psoitions... when are you going to try to defend yours?
Or have you, yet again, run away?
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I have to keep many of my AR-15's restrained in the safe... I had one wander down the street the other day.. I found it on the slide at the playground... Go figure.
 
stevenb said:
Keep preaching the victim's mantra buddy.

Maybe someday someone like me with the drive to survive will keep your ass from dying...

Until then, keep preaching.
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You remind me of the Gen. Bethlehem from the Postman :mrgreen:

No thanks pal, I got my own guns and ammo. We need these thing out in the desert, dont we?
 
FlyOnTheWall said:
You remind me of the Gen. Bethlehem from the Postman :mrgreen:

No thanks pal, I got my own guns and ammo. We need these thing out in the desert, dont we?
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Shooting in the desert sucks during the summer time.

Winter time here is perfect for training. :p
 
stevenb said:
I have to keep many of my AR-15's restrained in the safe... I had one wander down the street the other day.. I found it on the slide at the playground... Go figure.
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Good thing you caught it before it murdered all those innocent kids!!
 
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