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Thread: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

  1. #201
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I would like to add, the Captain spent several posts dishonestly claiming my point was that people who choose not to carry guns are meek. Specifically this post:

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057981162-post61.html

    "Anyone who chooses to not have a gun is being or has been taught to be meek."


    Even after correcting his error he insisted on fighting me on this point I did not make. Not only have I posted my position clearly several times, I linked an article, a you tube, and other information, that most others got except for skycore, will rockwell, and Captian"Courtesy". He then tried to morph his statement into something else.

    This and only this is the issue regarding my pointing out the Captain's blatant dishonesty in this discussion with me. If he wants to continue to obfuscate in order to weasel out of his baiting behavior so be it. I care not. But when he follows through with his threats he made to me in PM regarding calling ME dishonest in other threads (has happened already) because I laughed at his demand for a public apology to him. Lets remember when the **** hits the fan, and everyone is all pissed off. THIS is were the Captain started it.


    I will tell him here now publicly. You sir, will get what you give. Please act accordingly.


    The discussion and a good description of my true feelings on this topic, to which I was attacked dishonestly over, can be continued at the link below. Lets endeavor to keep this one sane.


    http://www.debatepolitics.com/Death-...s-victims.html
    Refuting all of the dishonesty in the above post would be rather simple, as would showing how, as usual, it was the Reverend who started this. However, this is not appropriate for this thread, so...

    Moderator's Warning:
    Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NYYou will cease these kinds of posts, upstairs, Reverend, or there will be further consequences.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #202
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post
    Sounds like an admission of being paralyzed by fear for life, from one event.
    Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm not following you.

    Paralyzed by fear? Of course anyone that endures such situations is afraid. But paralyzed by fear from one event?

    Is this in connection with me carrying a firearm with me basically anywhere I go?

    I was a boyscout, I learned to try and always be prepared. I was put in a situation I wasn't prepared for, but still managed to come out of alive. So I prepared for that situation / anything like that situation again in a responsible manner.. so I don't know where you're heading with this comment.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

  3. #203
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Basic human psychology


    Fight or flight. absolutely, the point is, when there was no flight available, these who i am sure had some able bodied people around them froze. maybe it is psychology. so what. Does this mean we can't overcome it? perhaps I am not as defeatist as you.

    Tell me do people ever fight back? Do you think there are ANY socilogical conditioning here?
    The response is fight, flight, or freeze. And no, we don't overcome it. We respond based on personality and on survival instinct. It is not a choice. It is instinctual based on the most likely chance of survival.

    And of course people fight back, depending on the situation. If the best chance of survival is to fight back, often that is what the person will do.

    freezing gave the greatest chance


    WHAT?!?!?!?... freezing gave the wolf this day easy targets. this is a gunfight, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight

    A man is there to kill everyone he sees, do you really believe the best solution for survival is to "hold still"?
    Yes. It is a better opportunity than fleeing, when no flight is available, and fighting, when this will draw attention to one. The instinct is to not assume that the man had lots of reload options. This is not instinctual. To freeze is based both on shock and on not drawing attention to one's self.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #204
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    This is a lie. you initially claimed my position was that those who chose not to carry a gun are meek. I explained how you were wrong numerous times numerous ways. this is where you started posting.
    I'm not doing this with you, Reverend. I have asked for clarification, and shown where you have erred. Everything you've posted has confirmed my position. Grossman confirms my position.

    Instead of continuing to perpetuate this, Reverend, try this. Answer two simple and direct questions:

    Do you believe that those who do not chose to carry a gun, and do not carry a gun are meek?

    If you do not, please describe them.

    In this instance, you made statements where you made similar statements re the article you dismissed in your perpetration of that lie you told about my position and ran with.
    No, Reverend, I demonstrated how what I said was different from what Grossman said, and that your accusation was false.



    you know, you could have said that.... but lets review.
    I did. It was pretty clear the first time, too.



    let me ask you, by your sentence structure, you are stating people fear the "sheepdogs" teeth. not the "wolves in sheeps clothing" if you made an error in grammar let me know. I unlike you will accept that you meant something more than what and how you wrote or something else entirelly, I wont bait you dishonestly with this for the next 4 pages. thanks
    No, Reverend, my grammar was just fine. I said both and meant both. Sheep fear wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs, and the teeth that the sheepdogs have. Not the sheepdogs themselves. And, I, unlike you, responded to your request for clarification, clearly, and accepted your comment "perhaps you made an error", courteously, which you did not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #205
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Right, while I am wrong fighting for my life if we ever find ourselves together, you just "hold still".....


    There is no survival in your "psychology" argument, there is only slaughter.
    The freeze response is instinctual. If the situation was one where fighting or fleeing would more likely result in your death, you too would freeze. This is not a conscious decision. It is a survival instinct. Whether one is actually killed is irrelevant. One does not react to an outcome, since that outcome has not occurred, yet.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    I've already had my trial by fire, not in a massacre such as the one we're talking about.. but in a similar situation.

    I know how I will act, I care not how others act.

    I will do what it takes to survive, or help others survive.

    I'm not a flee'er or a freeze'er.

    My experience was the primary reason for my getting, and carrying a ccw firearm at all times... irregardless of where I am.
    You are what you are depending on your instinctual response to each situation. Having a gun will change that situation, as will not having one.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #207
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I'm not doing this with you, Reverend. I have asked for clarification, and shown where you have erred. Everything you've posted has confirmed my position. Grossman confirms my position.

    Instead of continuing to perpetuate this, Reverend, try this. Answer two simple and direct questions:

    Do you believe that those who do not chose to carry a gun, and do not carry a gun are meek?


    If you do not, please describe them.
    Strawman, show me where I ever claimed this.


    I am really hesitant to say any more to you given your warnings.



    No, Reverend, I demonstrated how what I said was different from what Grossman said, and that your accusation was false.





    I did. It was pretty clear the first time, too.





    No, Reverend, my grammar was just fine. I said both and meant both. Sheep fear wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs, and the teeth that the sheepdogs have. Not the sheepdogs themselves. And, I, unlike you, responded to your request for clarification, clearly, and accepted your comment "perhaps you made an error", courteously, which you did not.

    Again, I am going to not respond to you, since your warnings were very clear.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Maybe I'm retarded, but I'm not following you.

    Paralyzed by fear? Of course anyone that endures such situations is afraid. But paralyzed by fear from one event?

    Is this in connection with me carrying a firearm with me basically anywhere I go?

    I was a boyscout, I learned to try and always be prepared. I was put in a situation I wasn't prepared for, but still managed to come out of alive. So I prepared for that situation / anything like that situation again in a responsible manner.. so I don't know where you're heading with this comment.

    Why change what was said?

    (Stevenb)
    My experience was the primary reason for my getting, and carrying a ccw firearm at all times... irregardless of where I am."

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    The gun is a tool, what is a shame gun or no gun is our society laying down to the wolf. how does 14 people get shot by 1 guy with 2 handguns? did anyone even attempt to fight back? the articles talk about hiding and cowering......

    This is a shame.
    Sorry for going so far back in the thread but you have made this comment twice and I dont see where anybody called you on it. The original posted article stated the people in the basement were hiding and cowering, not the ones being murdered in the classroom. You have taken the writers words, words which we don't even know to be accurate, and have attempted to put them back on the murdered people as if they were running around the room hiding and cowering.

    I find this whole discussion quite sad because what you are doing is blaming the victims for not fighting back, when you have no idea what took place in the classroom other than the end result. You keep returning to the "meek" word because it is your only defense in an otherwise defenseless stance. You have built a straw man of weakness based on the fact the victims died. You have spit on the graves of the victims, and that is what is truly disturbing. No sheepdog would attack the victims like you have because sheepdogs need the meek in order to be sheepdogs. You are no sheepdog.
    Last edited by FlyOnTheWall; 04-10-09 at 10:03 AM.

  10. #210
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    People fall to the level of their training. Maybe 2-14 had no training meaning that freezing is all they had left. People are always being told to not be a hero because it could get more people hurt in these situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    Being a psychiatric patient does not mean that you are mentally ill.



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