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Thread: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

  1. #181
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Or....maybe we have been in situations where fighting is the correct answer, and passed the quiz.

    Is someone is willing to stand around and wait his turn to get shot, what does he deserve, really?

    Certainly not pity.
    I've got the scars to prove that I wasn't willing to stand around and let others get hurt.

    They like projecting their weakness upon people, it's okay.
    George Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to win the war with Britain... He shot them.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow Akhbar View Post
    Or....maybe we have been in situations where fighting is the correct answer, and passed the quiz.

    Is someone is willing to stand around and wait his turn to get shot, what does he deserve, really?

    Certainly not pity.

    I'm a Combat Vet so I've earned my opinion on this issue. Or is experience suddenly not going to matter?

    Christianity was founded upon one person's choice to not use violence as a means of response. Keep in mind, thousands of his people were being murdered on a regular basis. Crucifixions were done for fun. By the gun lover's standards this person would be called a wimp pussy-ass punk not worth the air he was breathing. I've never seen anyone have the stones to call Jesus any of those names. His disciples (pre-Easter) were all practically begging him for a military revolt against the Roman murderers and this is why they (the original 12, minus Judas) ran in fear when Jesus got Crucified. They failed to understanding the wisdom of his teachings until the message of the Resurrection was brought to them. This is why they did not take up arms against their oppressors.

    But hey, I guess it's always possible a group of gun-huggers possess more wisdom than Jesus. (Personally, I don't think there's a sno-cone-up-Satan's-butt chance in Hell they have an ounce of Christ's wisdom.)

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    I've got the scars to prove that I wasn't willing to stand around and let others get hurt.

    They like projecting their weakness upon people, it's okay.

    Doesn't matter how many scars one has. Accusing others of projecting weakness out of disagreement is a projection in and of itself.

  4. #184
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And part of my rejection of Grossman's article is that his claim that "sheep" fear "sheepdogs" is fallacious. Few "sheep" fear "sheepdogs". This is spin created by the "sheepdogs". If the sheep fear anything it is the wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs, and the teeth the sheepdogs have. As far as most sheepdogs go, Grossman is completely mistaken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post



    "The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence"


    "The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed."



    So you "reject" him, then paraphrase him in agreement. I am a little confused here captain. Which is it?
    Let's review, Reverend, and this is where you are posting dishonestly, either on purpose or because you did not read my post carefully enough.

    When I say "If the sheep fear anything it is the wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs", I am not saying, "The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog." I am saying that the sheep do not like wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs. This is completely different than what Grossman says. You always have trouble with argument that are not black or white. And this is not only no exception, but further presents how you see "sheep". People who you and Grossman refer to as "sheep" do not dislike sheepdogs, not at all. Most like and respect them. However, there are wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs. These are those that "sheep" do not like. And this is the contradiction that you and Grossman make and do not get. "Sheep" are smart enough to know the difference.

    The other quote fits right in line with this way of thinking; "The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed." But the sheep is suspicious, this is what you and Grossman do not get, and why I get on you about the "meek" comment. You are presenting a victim mentality. The "sheepdog" may not hurt the sheep, but the wolf pretending to be the sheep, would. You ever heard of the "wolf in sheep's clothing" fable? This is a take of on this.

    I hope this helps you to understand the error in your assumption and the fact that I, in no way contradicted myself or agreed with Grossman. His premise is overly simplistic and presents a "blaming the victim" mentality, which I do not agree with.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    I read it and found it to be a rather humdrum piece of work with little thought other than the author's acknowledgment that he believes he is a protector because he carries a gun. I don't believe the guy because I believe that most people who carry a gun do it more for self protection than the protection of others. He immediately states that there is nothing wrong with being a sheep, then criticizes and belittles sheep throughout the rest of the piece. Basically, the author claims that he has a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens which makes him a protector (sheepdog). What happens when he loses his love for his fellow citizen? He becomes a wolf. There is a thin line between sheepdog and wolf, and that is the heart of the gun debate. People can snap at any time.
    In bold. You nailed it and saw precisely what I saw. Grossman contradicted himself throughout. His position is overly simplistic and one of "blame the victim" which is why I reject it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #186
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    What does the fact they are foreigners have to do with anything? furthermore no, I don't expect the 1st "foreigner" to fight back, I expect the 2nd one to, then the 3rd, then the 4th, etc....

    to get up to 14 dead without fighting back? What value do we place on our lives these days. This is a tragedy, but deeper into this story is the fact that we have become all too dependant on others for our very lives.

    I highlighted several seemingly people of moderate age who could have acted.... Imagine if the mindset was to fight instead of "hide" and "Cower"? gun or no gun, we may have had less dead.

    See the youtube video I posted for the mindset I am talking about. The gun is irrellevant in deciding what to do when you find yourself in a gun fight, if you have one or not, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight.
    Basic human psychology, Reverend. When confronted with a life threatening situation, one will react in one of three ways: Fight, Flight, or Freeze. How one reacts is based on two factors: 1) the person's personality, and 2) the choice that will lead to the best chance of one's survival. This decision is not made with what one would call conscious thought, it is made instantaneously, based on an inherent assessment. Survival is the key component, here, but survival of the individual, not the group. When, unarmed, and presented with someone carrying a gun, the most likely response would be to freeze. Fleeing, in an enclosed place, which is where these people were, would draw attention to them, making them more likely targets, decreasing their potential for survival. Attempting to fight, would not only draw attention to the individual, but put them in a more aggressive situation, causing the gunman to fight back, decreasing their potential for survival. In this particular situation, freezing gave the greatest chance. though small as it was. If the situation were more even, or if there were an easier way out, another of these three "F's" might have been chosen. But these were not available, therefore, human psychology dictated how these people reacted.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 04-09-09 at 04:52 AM.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #187
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    That's the victim's mentality... "not me, why me, thank god it wasn't me.".

    **** people who wouldn't take every opportunity they could to help others in such a situation, they deserve their death... when it comes to them.. that's called karma.

    I'd rather die on my feet trying, than be gunned down like some pathetic ass pussy cowardly begging for my life.
    No, it's basic human psychology, which I explained in my previous post. You are just presenting an erroneous "blame the victim" mentality, and you do not know what you are talking about.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #188
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I didn't. This would be a straw man.

    number 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 17, now that's a different story. At some point we all have to take charge of our lives.

    He fired 89 shots. he had to reload. This is a pause. Why did no one take that opportunity to try and save themselves?
    Human psychology, Reverend, in regards to survival. Read my other post for clarification to understand why you are wrong.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #189
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by stevenb View Post
    Not a tough guy, but I refuse to cower in the corner like a pussy and become a statistic like others.

    Assumptions without facts? if he had any other devices / deterrants with him.. MAYBE your incapacitate argument would hold.. but, no articles mention that... and they'd be all over that ****.

    The plain and simple matter of fact is the people who he was shooting were cowards, and they obviously didn't do anything to stop this person from ending their lives... hell, they probably didn't even try.
    The plain and simple truth is that you do not understand the situation and how suvival instincts based on situations affect people.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #190
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    So lets review.


    3 or 4 explaination of my statement

    a you tube about a lady with said "sheepdog" mindset

    And a link to an article outlining the mentality I am refering to.



    How much more clarification do you need? If you were being "honest" in your attempts to bait me, then I must question your intelligence. Since I know you are intelligent, I am only left with you willfully choosing to ignore my point to bait me, and that my friend is a dishonest tactic.
    Reverend, please show me where you took the post that I am questioning and directly clarified it. You have not. All you have done is continue to bolster the position that I am confronting you on. You are presenting the "blame the victim" mentality. This has been pointed out to you more than once, by more than one. I am aware that this may not be a popular position, but if it is, please admit it rather than hiding. If it is not your position, and everything you have posted since I have confronted you, only bolsters the fact that you seem to believe the victim is to blame, and those who do not carry guns are meek or as Grossman said, in denial, please, as I have asked repeatedly, clarify your position.

    If you cannot, or will not, just say so.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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