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Thread: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    Great.... It is impossible, even if everybody was locked and loaded. The wolves would then carry some sort of gassing agent to stop the militant sheep before leading them to the slaughter. Then the argument would be that the sheep do not carry gas masks and let themselves die because they were not prepared.
    Its hard to argue that when confronted in a situation like what we've seen recently that you are better off without a weapon than with a weapon.

    Anyone can 'just snap'. Given that, there's no way to prevent people that 'just snap' from getting guns and shooting up the local BK.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Its hard to argue that when confronted in a situation like what we've seen recently that you are better off without a weapon than with a weapon.

    Anyone can 'just snap'. Given that, there's no way to prevent people that 'just snap' from getting guns and shooting up the local BK.
    I was referring to the sheep-sheepdog-wolf tale in describing a sheepdog snapping and becoming a wolf. The point is how can we trust a sheepdog who snaps?

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    IIRC, you argument to this effect has been thoroughly debunked.
    It is not possible to "debunk" sound reason. As exerts in the ownership and use of weapons, gun owners should be in the forefront of the effort to prevent unstable individuals from aquiring firearms. There is nothing in that statement to "debunk", so either respond to it or slither away.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    It is not possible to "debunk" sound reason.
    Your position was shown to be unsound.

    Disagree? Then defend it from those that criticized it.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1057964876

    IIRC, when your poistion to this effect was challenged, you whined and cried and ran away.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1057964993

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    I was referring to the sheep-sheepdog-wolf tale in describing a sheepdog snapping and becoming a wolf. The point is how can we trust a sheepdog who snaps?
    Clearly, we cannot.
    Which, of course, is why the police should be disarmed.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Clearly, we cannot.
    Which, of course, is why the police should be disarmed.
    I am advocating for nobody to be disarmed. I am merely criticizing the sheep/wolf analogy and the remark that these people were sheep and died due their own meekness.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Your position was shown to be unsound.

    Disagree? Then defend it from those that criticized it.


    IIRC, when your poistion to this effect was challenged, you whined and cried and ran away.
    I don't cry, and I obviously haven't run away. You, on the other hand, constantly produce crap instead of response. For example:


    Quote:
    This is my position...that gun owners should take the lead in controlling firearms.

    3rd time:
    The firearms community is VERY active in this.
    That their activity doesnt manifest itself in a manner you agree with doesnt change that.

    Your entire position here is based on a false dichotomy -- that YOUR way is the only way someone can "take the lead in controlling firearms".

    And so, you have been proven wrong. You can run away now.
    The "firearms community" does nothing regarding the acquisition of weapons by unstable individuals except defend their right to own them. When pressed, they retreat to the argument of a "slippery slope" whereby any control at all will lead to confiscation of all firearms, and then they talk about how cars kill more people than guns.
    You have not answered the question, and your obviously limited ability to comprehend the issue indicates you never will.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by WillRockwell View Post
    I don't cry, and I obviously haven't run away.
    The 2nd post I quoted says dofferently, as you did exactly that:

    I took the time to explain my position in a mature and reasonable manner, and receive nothing but ridicule. **** you all.
    The "firearms community" does nothing regarding the acquisition of weapons by unstable individuals except defend their right to own them
    You're sumply restating your premise.
    Restating your premise does nothing to support that premise.
    Thus, your premise, based on the previously illustrated false dichotomy, remains unsound.

    You may run away now.
    Last edited by Goobieman; 04-08-09 at 02:42 PM.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    You are welcome. This is my forth post, so I would say I am brand spanking new here


    I read it and found it to be a rather humdrum piece of work with little thought other than the author's acknowledgment that he believes he is a protector because he carries a gun. I don't believe the guy because I believe that most people who carry a gun do it more for self protection than the protection of others. He immediately states that there is nothing wrong with being a sheep, then criticizes and belittles sheep throughout the rest of the piece. Basically, the author claims that he has a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens which makes him a protector (sheepdog). What happens when he loses his love for his fellow citizen? He becomes a wolf. There is a thin line between sheepdog and wolf, and that is the heart of the gun debate. People can snap at any time.

    It is indeed a simple written piece. And I think that is the beauty of it. And no you are wrong. There is a big difference between the sheepdog and the wolf.

    One is predator, the other is protector. And to state that because someone might do something, we need to ban guns punishes the innocent, not the guilty.




    I never said you were. By "sheepdoggish", you mean we all should carry a gun, correct?
    Not at all. I keep trying to explain this as well. the mindset. not the tool.

    Tell me you understand or do you need me to explain further?










    Here are the names of the dead sheep:

    Parveen Nln Ali, 26, Binghamton, Pakistan

    Dolores Yigal, 53, Binghamton, Philippines

    Marc Henry Bernard, 44, Endicott, Haiti

    Maria Sonia Bernard, 46, Endicott, Haiti


    Li Guo, 47, Binghamton, China

    Hong Xiu Mao, 35, Greene, China

    Lan Ho, 39, Binghamton, Vietnam


    Hai Hong Zhong, 54, Endwell, China

    Maria Zobniw, 60, Binghamton, U.S.

    Roberta Bobby King, 72, Binghamton, U.S.

    Almir O. Alves, 43, Unknown, Brazil


    Jiang Ling, 22, Endicott, China


    Layla Khalil, 57, Binghamton, Iraq


    Did you really expect a bunch of foreigners to fight off a wolf carrying a couple guns?

    What does the fact they are foreigners have to do with anything? furthermore no, I don't expect the 1st "foreigner" to fight back, I expect the 2nd one to, then the 3rd, then the 4th, etc....

    to get up to 14 dead without fighting back? What value do we place on our lives these days. This is a tragedy, but deeper into this story is the fact that we have become all too dependant on others for our very lives.

    I highlighted several seemingly people of moderate age who could have acted.... Imagine if the mindset was to fight instead of "hide" and "Cower"? gun or no gun, we may have had less dead.

    See the youtube video I posted for the mindset I am talking about. The gun is irrellevant in deciding what to do when you find yourself in a gun fight, if you have one or not, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight.





    Did you expect a 72 year old female teacher to take out the wolf?
    As best she can.


    You accused these people of allowing themselves to be killed when in reality they were not yet American citizens and legally could not carry a gun, except perhaps to hunt. Furthermore, you took offense to words like "hid" and "cower", when those were the words used by the writer and may not have even been the case.
    Again the gun is irrellevant, they were in a gun fight.


    Don't you suppose the police (sheepdogs) told the sheep in the basement to stay there while they looked for the shooter?

    Police are historians. There to document the carnage.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    You are welcome. This is my forth post, so I would say I am brand spanking new here


    I read it and found it to be a rather humdrum piece of work with little thought other than the author's acknowledgment that he believes he is a protector because he carries a gun. I don't believe the guy because I believe that most people who carry a gun do it more for self protection than the protection of others. He immediately states that there is nothing wrong with being a sheep, then criticizes and belittles sheep throughout the rest of the piece. Basically, the author claims that he has a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens which makes him a protector (sheepdog). What happens when he loses his love for his fellow citizen? He becomes a wolf. There is a thin line between sheepdog and wolf, and that is the heart of the gun debate.
    It is indeed a simple written piece. And I think that is the beauty of it. And no you are wrong. There is a big difference between the sheepdog and the wolf.

    One is predator, the other is protector. And to state that because someone might do something, we need to ban guns punishes the innocent, not the guilty.


    People can snap at any time.

    They sure can. Its a good thing I have a means to protect myself, no?



    I never said you were. By "sheepdoggish", you mean we all should carry a gun, correct?
    Not at all. I keep trying to explain this as well. the mindset. not the tool.

    Tell me you understand or do you need me to explain further?










    Here are the names of the dead sheep:

    Parveen Nln Ali, 26, Binghamton, Pakistan

    Dolores Yigal, 53, Binghamton, Philippines

    Marc Henry Bernard, 44, Endicott, Haiti

    Maria Sonia Bernard, 46, Endicott, Haiti


    Li Guo, 47, Binghamton, China

    Hong Xiu Mao, 35, Greene, China

    Lan Ho, 39, Binghamton, Vietnam


    Hai Hong Zhong, 54, Endwell, China

    Maria Zobniw, 60, Binghamton, U.S.

    Roberta Bobby King, 72, Binghamton, U.S.

    Almir O. Alves, 43, Unknown, Brazil


    Jiang Ling, 22, Endicott, China


    Layla Khalil, 57, Binghamton, Iraq


    Did you really expect a bunch of foreigners to fight off a wolf carrying a couple guns?

    What does the fact they are foreigners have to do with anything? furthermore no, I don't expect the 1st "foreigner" to fight back, I expect the 2nd one to, then the 3rd, then the 4th, etc....

    to get up to 14 dead without fighting back? What value do we place on our lives these days. This is a tragedy, but deeper into this story is the fact that we have become all too dependant on others for our very lives.

    I highlighted several seemingly people of moderate age who could have acted.... Imagine if the mindset was to fight instead of "hide" and "Cower"? gun or no gun, we may have had less dead.

    See the youtube video I posted for the mindset I am talking about. The gun is irrellevant in deciding what to do when you find yourself in a gun fight, if you have one or not, you have the rest of your life to win a gunfight.





    Did you expect a 72 year old female teacher to take out the wolf?
    As best she can.


    You accused these people of allowing themselves to be killed when in reality they were not yet American citizens and legally could not carry a gun, except perhaps to hunt. Furthermore, you took offense to words like "hid" and "cower", when those were the words used by the writer and may not have even been the case.
    Again the gun is irrellevant, they were in a gun fight.


    Don't you suppose the police (sheepdogs) told the sheep in the basement to stay there while they looked for the shooter?

    Police are historians. There to document the carnage.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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