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Thread: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

  1. #131
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I will read this later, since I must get back to work. I would appreciate if you would not make ridiculous claims about my honesty. It is not I who has refused to clarify his post.



    So lets review.


    3 or 4 explaination of my statement

    a you tube about a lady with said "sheepdog" mindset

    And a link to an article outlining the mentality I am refering to.



    How much more clarification do you need? If you were being "honest" in your attempts to bait me, then I must question your intelligence. Since I know you are intelligent, I am only left with you willfully choosing to ignore my point to bait me, and that my friend is a dishonest tactic.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Dave Grossman is not one of my personal favorites; a lot of his work on the 'psychology of killing' is questionable. However, while I think it overly simplistic in some ways, his thesis On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs is a reasonably good way to get people to understand why some of us are the way we are.

    I had a relative who didn't understand my position on guns and my concern with self-protection at all. I had her read Grossman's sheepdog analogy and her eyes were opened. Her problem, and the reason I made her uncomfortable, is that to the "sheep", a sheepdog looks a lot like a wolf. That essay helped her understand me better and to close that rift between us. It's worth reading.

    We don't all have to be sheepdogs, but it would be nice if those who choose not to be, understood those who feel we have to be. Those of you who choose to go unarmed should not fear those of us who are honest citizens and who do go legally armed...we're not your enemy and wish you no harm; the day might come when you find us to be a valuable friend. We tend to have a strong sense of responsibility to protect others, and we just might be the one who steps between you and a dangerous criminal.

    G.



    I fully agree.


    Thank you for demonstrating real quick, the understanding of the mindest I was trying to discuss.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  3. #133
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    As I said in my most recent post, if this is your position, my accusation stands. You are accusing those who do not carry a gun of disliking law enforcement and of being meek and teaching society to be meek.

    I reject this position as fallacious and of you of having zero evidence of it.


    Show me where I or this article states "not carrying a gun makes you meek"? This is the dishonesty I am talking about captain.


    And to simplisticly say "I dont like the article its poo" is not intelligent debate.

    Why do you disagree with the article and my ACTUAL position?


    Lets try to move this debate into a realm where we can beneficially understand each other, and put the games away.


    I await your response
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And part of my rejection of Grossman's article is that his claim that "sheep" fear "sheepdogs" is fallacious. Few "sheep" fear "sheepdogs". This is spin created by the "sheepdogs". If the sheep fear anything it is the wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs, and the teeth the sheepdogs have. As far as most sheepdogs go, Grossman is completely mistaken.





    "The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence"


    "The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed."



    So you "reject" him, then paraphrase him in agreement. I am a little confused here captain. Which is it?
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  5. #135
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post
    Show us where he previously made the argument to RH.
    I dont need to.

    He has made the 'responsible gun owners arent willing to contribute to solving the problem' argument before, and it has been debunked (see: the link I posted)

    He's trying to make it again; I pointed out that it has been debunked.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    I dont need to.

    He has made the 'responsible gun owners arent willing to contribute to solving the problem' argument before, and it has been debunked (see: the link I posted)

    He's trying to make it again; I pointed out that it has been debunked.

    No, for what, the second or third time...he specifically addressed a poster and not all gun owners. Or are you saying all gun owners are responsible and work towards solutions beyond the end of the barrel?

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post
    No, for what, the second or third time...he specifically addressed a poster and not all gun owners
    You don't have to like my response, but you DO have to accept that it IS my response.

    If you don't -- well, I don't really care. MY post was directed at WR, and HE knows that I am right.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Thank you..... You are fairly new here and you got it pretty easy, clearly showing the intent of others I have long known here as less than noble.
    You are welcome. This is my forth post, so I would say I am brand spanking new here

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I read it and found it to be a rather humdrum piece of work with little thought other than the author's acknowledgment that he believes he is a protector because he carries a gun. I don't believe the guy because I believe that most people who carry a gun do it more for self protection than the protection of others. He immediately states that there is nothing wrong with being a sheep, then criticizes and belittles sheep throughout the rest of the piece. Basically, the author claims that he has a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens which makes him a protector (sheepdog). What happens when he loses his love for his fellow citizen? He becomes a wolf. There is a thin line between sheepdog and wolf, and that is the heart of the gun debate. People can snap at any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    There would be no more "violent" of a society, there would be a safer more peaceful one.


    I am not advocating more "wolves" we all need to become a little more "sheepdoggish".
    I never said you were. By "sheepdoggish", you mean we all should carry a gun, correct?








    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Anyway. The offense I take is the dishonest hammering of a position I do not hold. I clearly explained, linked articles, and a you tube explaining my positions. As of your post, not one of these posters even attempted to address any of my further explainations and instead insist on attacking what they want me to have said, not what I had said.


    out of the three, there is only one of them that I find irksome that he took that route. the other two you will come to learn are rather, well, I'll just let you figure it out.
    Here are the names of the dead sheep:

    Parveen Nln Ali, 26, Binghamton, Pakistan

    Dolores Yigal, 53, Binghamton, Philippines

    Marc Henry Bernard, 44, Endicott, Haiti

    Maria Sonia Bernard, 46, Endicott, Haiti

    Li Guo, 47, Binghamton, China

    Hong Xiu Mao, 35, Greene, China

    Lan Ho, 39, Binghamton, Vietnam

    Hai Hong Zhong, 54, Endwell, China

    Maria Zobniw, 60, Binghamton, U.S.

    Roberta Bobby King, 72, Binghamton, U.S.

    Almir O. Alves, 43, Unknown, Brazil


    Jiang Ling, 22, Endicott, China

    Layla Khalil, 57, Binghamton, Iraq


    Did you really expect a bunch of foreigners to fight off a wolf carrying a couple guns? Did you expect a 72 year old female teacher to take out the wolf? You accused these people of allowing themselves to be killed when in reality they were not yet American citizens and legally could not carry a gun, except perhaps to hunt. Furthermore, you took offense to words like "hid" and "cower", when those were the words used by the writer and may not have even been the case.
    Thirty-seven people in all made it out of the building, including 26 who hid in the boiler room in the basement, cowering there for three hours while police methodically searched the building and tried to determine whether the gunman was still alive and whether he was holding any hostages, Zikuski said.
    Don't you suppose the police (sheepdogs) told the sheep in the basement to stay there while they looked for the shooter?

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    What happens when he loses his love for his fellow citizen? He becomes a wolf. There is a thin line between sheepdog and wolf, and that is the heart of the gun debate. People can snap at any time.
    Yes. And this is why it is imposible to stop people like those who usually commit shootings like this from getting a gun -- at least so long as you continue to respect the 2nd amendment, anyway.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Yes. And this is why it is imposible to stop people like those who usually commit shootings like this from getting a gun -- at least so long as you continue to respect the 2nd amendment, anyway.
    Great.... It is impossible, even if everybody was locked and loaded. The wolves would then carry some sort of gassing agent to stop the militant sheep before leading them to the slaughter. Then the argument would be that the sheep do not carry gas masks and let themselves die because they were not prepared.

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