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Thread: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

  1. #121
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by SkyCore View Post
    Linking that post made no sense because he was specifically addressing RH, not you or anyone else...
    None of this changes the fact that his argument to said effect has been previously debunked.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Are you not clicking the link? it clearly explains the "let themselves be shot" comment.


    I can only lead a horse to water. Everyone else except you and skycore get it. your in great company.


    Stop being stubborn and admit you know damn well what I meant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Once again. I am most disapointed in your desire to misrepresent, and lie about my position.


    Here is the link again

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1057981365

    and here is the explaination from said link....


    The gun is a tool, what is a shame gun or no gun is our society laying down to the wolf. how does 14 people get shot by 1 guy with 2 handguns? did anyone even attempt to fight back? the articles talk about hiding and cowering......

    This is a shame.




    Now will you continue to tag team me with skycore or will you finally drop this shameful dishonest behavior and move on with the discussion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    I read the link last night. It does not clarify your position nor answer my question, so don't play these games, Reverend. I'll make it simple for you. Here is your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    How is this related to my commentary? people passed judgment on the burger king guy. Here 14 people let themselves get shot, not only was no one armed, but words like "cower" and "hid" are the words used here. it dismays me to know end that we teach ourselves to be meek when the wolf comes for the slaughter....
    Do you believe that someone who chooses to not carry a gun, lets themselves get shot, and that when we choose to not carry a gun we have been taught and are teaching others to be meek.

    Real simple. Let's see if you answer it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #123
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    And for your review Captain, another, explaining how I feel. I hope this ends your dishonesty once and for all here. this is a serious issue to me and your dishonest tactic to bait me with misrepresentations of my point are rather irksome. I expect better from you.



    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
    I will read this later, since I must get back to work. I would appreciate if you would not make ridiculous claims about my honesty. It is not I who has refused to clarify his post.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #124
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Dave Grossman is not one of my personal favorites; a lot of his work on the 'psychology of killing' is questionable. However, while I think it overly simplistic in some ways, his thesis On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs is a reasonably good way to get people to understand why some of us are the way we are.

    I had a relative who didn't understand my position on guns and my concern with self-protection at all. I had her read Grossman's sheepdog analogy and her eyes were opened. Her problem, and the reason I made her uncomfortable, is that to the "sheep", a sheepdog looks a lot like a wolf. That essay helped her understand me better and to close that rift between us. It's worth reading.

    We don't all have to be sheepdogs, but it would be nice if those who choose not to be, understood those who feel we have to be. Those of you who choose to go unarmed should not fear those of us who are honest citizens and who do go legally armed...we're not your enemy and wish you no harm; the day might come when you find us to be a valuable friend. We tend to have a strong sense of responsibility to protect others, and we just might be the one who steps between you and a dangerous criminal.

    G.
    Last edited by Goshin; 04-07-09 at 09:55 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    We tend to have a strong sense of responsibility to protect others, and we just might be the one who steps between you and a dangerous criminal.
    Problem is, your sense of responsibility does not extend to help us figure out how to keep guns out of the hands of mass murderers, so instead of saving us from dangerous criminals you are enabling and encouraging them.

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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    And for your review Captain, another, explaining how I feel. I hope this ends your dishonesty once and for all here. this is a serious issue to me and your dishonest tactic to bait me with misrepresentations of my point are rather irksome. I expect better from you.



    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
    I read the article. If what the article says is similar to what you said, then my accusation of what your post meant is right on target. Further, the author contradicts himself, many times, and I reject his premise as simplistic and faulty.

    And I am still waiting for you to clarify your post. If the above article is your attempt, then, as I said, my accusation is dead on.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #127
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und View Post
    Another one. Did you take my position as a whole?


    Nope.


    Show me in what you quoted where I stated one who chooses not to have a gun is meek.


    My position is, and I will quote from an essay I linked:


    "The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door. "


    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman



    We teach our society to be meek in the face of the wolf. To wait for the coming slaughter. .What other way can you explain 14 peole being shot and killed by one man and two pistols?


    The gun is irrellevant.


    5th time I explained my position.
    As I said in my most recent post, if this is your position, my accusation stands. You are accusing those who do not carry a gun of disliking law enforcement and of being meek and teaching society to be meek.

    I reject this position as fallacious and of you of having zero evidence of it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #128
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Dave Grossman is not one of my personal favorites; a lot of his work on the 'psychology of killing' is questionable. However, while I think it overly simplistic in some ways, his thesis On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs is a reasonably good way to get people to understand why some of us are the way we are.

    I had a relative who didn't understand my position on guns and my concern with self-protection at all. I had her read Grossman's sheepdog analogy and her eyes were opened. Her problem, and the reason I made her uncomfortable, is that to the "sheep", a sheepdog looks a lot like a wolf. That essay helped her understand me better and to close that rift between us. It's worth reading.

    We don't all have to be sheepdogs, but it would be nice if those who choose not to be, understood those who feel we have to be. Those of you who choose to go unarmed should not fear those of us who are honest citizens and who do go legally armed...we're not your enemy and wish you no harm; the day might come when you find us to be a valuable friend. We tend to have a strong sense of responsibility to protect others, and we just might be the one who steps between you and a dangerous criminal.

    G.
    And part of my rejection of Grossman's article is that his claim that "sheep" fear "sheepdogs" is fallacious. Few "sheep" fear "sheepdogs". This is spin created by the "sheepdogs". If the sheep fear anything it is the wolves that pretend to be sheepdogs, and the teeth the sheepdogs have. As far as most sheepdogs go, Grossman is completely mistaken.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #129
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    None of this changes the fact that his argument to said effect has been previously debunked.

    Show us where he previously made the argument to RH. Or will you continue to re-write his post?

  10. #130
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    Re: Reports: 4 shot, hostages taken in Binghamton, NY

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall View Post
    I have read your posts, and your position appears to be you are struggling to understand why so many people choose to hide from a gunman instead of fighting, and that America as a whole has been conditioned to be meek, or docile. You may be correct, however the flip side of that coin would lead to a more violent nation than what we already have.
    Thank you..... You are fairly new here and you got it pretty easy, clearly showing the intent of others I have long known here as less than noble.

    However please read:

    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman

    There would be no more "violent" of a society, there would be a safer more peaceful one.


    I am not advocating more "wolves" we all need to become a little more "sheepdoggish".




    I said you were drawing conclusions, which is accurate. I do not understand why you have taken offense to others interpretation of your comments. Apparently you do believe that America is full of meek wimps. You shouldn't have to defend your position unless you really don't believe it.





    Anyway. The offense I take is the dishonest hammering of a position I do not hold. I clearly explained, linked articles, and a you tube explaining my positions. As of your post, not one of these posters even attempted to address any of my further explainations and instead insist on attacking what they want me to have said, not what I had said.


    out of the three, there is only one of them that I find irksome that he took that route. the other two you will come to learn are rather, well, I'll just let you figure it out.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

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