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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    I don't think progressive is the world, I think it is fair. They are being pretty fair to everyone.
    No, they're not being fair to everyone. The definition of marriage in Iowa is still discriminatory against bestial and polygamist relationships. Your equal protection arguments only make sense if the definition of marriage is inclusive to all types of relationships, not just the ones you find politically convenient.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    All you can expect from a law is to be fair, you are contradicting your own rhetoric.
    I most fervently hope the law is fair.

    I also most fervently hope that judges do not address whether the law is fair or unfair; judges should confine themselves to the specifics of the law, and leave questions of fairness to legislatures.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    If by applied you mean rewrote or turned into mere guidelines by reinterpreting it against tradition and precedent then you are correct.
    No I mean they applied the State Constitution of Iowa and as it stands now banning gay marriage is unConctitutional. The Constitution can be amended though.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by thabigred View Post
    I don't think progressive is the world, I think it is fair. They are being pretty fair to everyone.
    Fairness is progressive.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, they're not being fair to everyone. The definition of marriage in Iowa is still discriminatory against bestial and polygamist relationships. Your equal protection arguments only make sense if the definition of marriage is inclusive to all types of relationships, not just the ones you find politically convenient.
    Why are you righties so hung up on your bestiality fantasy? I mean I understand that down on the farm Bovine Bessie might make for a good saturday night for your lot but do you really think you're going to get to marry her?

    Polygamy and polyandry on the other hand, as a relationship between CONSENTING ADULTS (see, an animal nor a child is able to give consent) and shouldn't be illegal.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    I have a crush on my toaster. It toasts so fine and has an enamel finish with multiple slits.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Fairness is progressive.
    Welfareness is progress. Hahaha,
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Why are you righties so hung up on your bestiality fantasy? I mean I understand that down on the farm Bovine Bessie might make for a good saturday night for your lot but do you really think you're going to get to marry her?
    I'm from the suburbs of Chicago. Farms and farm animals are not a big part of my life.

    Polygamy and polyandry on the other hand, as a relationship between CONSENTING ADULTS (see, an animal nor a child is able to give consent)
    I agree. I believe bestial relationships should be illegal for the same reason, but there are sound arguments to the contrary (just ask Agnapostate) and these arguments cannot be ignored simply because you don't agree with them.

    Legally speaking, it is entirely possible that a bestial relationship could garner the same Constitutional protection as a heterosexual or homosexual relationship, and pursuant to such a determination one could make an argument for equal protection under the law, e.g. state-sanctioned bestial marriage.

    and shouldn't be illegal.
    Once again, I agree, but the question is not whether polygamist relationships should be illegal, the question is whether or not they should receive positive recognition from the state.

    If you affirm the "right" of gay couples to marry under the equal protection clause then you must also affirm the "right" of polygamists to do the same; unless, of course, you're just a hypocrite who doesn't know the first thing about Constitutional law.

    So, do you affirm the "right" of polygamists to receive positive recognition from the state in the form of a marriage? Or are you just another person who screams about "rights" and the Constitution when it suites their political agenda?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    No, they're not being fair to everyone. The definition of marriage in Iowa is still discriminatory against bestial and polygamist relationships. Your equal protection arguments only make sense if the definition of marriage is inclusive to all types of relationships, not just the ones you find politically convenient.
    Well polygamy you might get an argument but bestiality is considered abuse of animals, because said animal does not have the right to know what he or she is doing. Much like child abuse, animals are judged in the same light. So no you don't need to be fair to people who practice bestiality.

    The problem with polygamist is they are fighting against semantics really, I mean the word to marry always means to join two objects. You can't marry together more than two objects. Sure definitions of words change over time, but really I don't see a problem with it, except the fact people might use that as a loophole to get more money out of the system, I don't see a problem with it.

    Put a vote in my state for polygamy and I will vote for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    I most fervently hope the law is fair.

    I also most fervently hope that judges do not address whether the law is fair or unfair; judges should confine themselves to the specifics of the law, and leave questions of fairness to legislatures.
    I wish we could trust the legislature to be fair, but that is kind of hard when they got to worry about re-election in a few years and majority of there constituents have unfair biased opinions on the subject.
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippery Slope View Post
    Fairness is progressive.
    How about this?

    All fairness is progress but all progress is not always fair.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Well polygamy you might get an argument but bestiality is considered abuse of animals, because said animal does not have the right to know what he or she is doing. Much like child abuse, animals are judged in the same light. So no you don't need to be fair to people who practice bestiality.
    Devil's Advocate

    What does the inability of an animal to consent to sex or marriage have to do with anything? Do we obtain their consent before we murder them and consume their flesh? If a person wants to marry their pet, whom they love, who are you to tell them otherwise?

    The problem with polygamist is they are fighting against semantics really, I mean the word to marry always means to join two objects. You can't marry together more than two objects. Sure definitions of words change over time, but really I don't see a problem with it, except the fact people might use that as a loophole to get more money out of the system, I don't see a problem with it.
    I find this funny since the entire discussion revolves around changing the definition of marriage to accommodate homosexuals.

    Put a vote in my state for polygamy and I will vote for it.
    You seem like a reasonable person so I will spare you the run-around and get straight to the point. State-sanctioned marriages - heterosexual or otherwise - are not a right. The government has no business validating people's lifestyle choices (getting married), nor is the government permitted to confer benefits upon people because of those lifestyle choices.

    So, if we are going to permit the government to engage in an activity which is decidedly unconstitutional then it makes no sense whatsoever to cry afoul of the Constitution. Legally speaking, a gay couple has the same "right" to a state-sanctioned marriage as I do to a minority housing-grant (I'm white).

    A libertarian shouldn't be arguing for gay marriage, they should be arguing against state-sanctioned marriage in its entirety.

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