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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    If women were denied the right to drive a car, then it would be.
    uh oh, do we need to talk about gender discrimination again?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Then we agree.
    No, we obviously don't agree because you've been disagreeing with me for the entire thread, or have I missed something?

    The government should simply get out of the marriage business altogether and let churches marry whomever they choose. Some churches can choose to marry only heteros. Others will marry straight and gays. Sounds perfect.
    Absolutely, HOWEVER, if we are going to permit the government to establish an unconstitutional institution it makes no sense to cry afoul when it runs amiss of the Constitution. A gay couple has as much of a "right" to a state-sanctioned marriage as I do to a minority housing grant.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Then we agree. The government should simply get out of the marriage business altogether and let churches marry whomever they choose. Some churches can choose to marry only heteros. Others will marry straight and gays. Sounds perfect.
    This is not the ruling of the Iowa Supreme Court.

    Edited to add: Wasn't this the position of mine you dismissed as not being very persuasive?
    Last edited by celticlord; 04-07-09 at 02:24 AM.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    No they aren't. Two men can not get married.
    Neither can 2 related people. You're point?
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-07-09 at 02:42 AM.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Captain, need I remind you that the position of "no religion" is itself a religious position, and thus, paradoxically, "'NO' religion" is still religion?

    You can disclaim the need for a sacred text -- that is a religious statement.

    You can deny the existence of a Deity -- that is a religious statement.

    You can deny that anything beyond the empirical world of the senses exists -- that is a religious statement.

    When you make religious statements, you are practicing religion.

    What unites the Atheist with the Fundamentalist is their fervent faith in their own beliefs; one is neither more nor less religious than the other.
    I don't agree that lack of religion is religion; I think what you are talking about is belief, which is not identical to religion. Your argument is interesting, though, and since I am not an atheist, I would prefer to leave it to someone who is to address it further.
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    This is not the ruling of the Iowa Supreme Court.

    Edited to add: Wasn't this the position of mine you dismissed as not being very persuasive?
    I never said it WAS the ruling of the Iowa Supreme Court, I was simply agreeing with Etheral that Government should be out of the marriage business.

    As for your second point, let me clarify. I agree with that position. However, when I said it was unpersuasive, I was saying that it is unpersuasive as an argument for arguing that bans on gay marriage are constitutional. As an argument for that it fails sadly. However, as a policy matter, it makes absolute sense.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Neither can 2 related people. You're point?
    You mean it's against the law to marry your sister? Maybe gays should be fighting for that too.
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You mean it's against the law to marry your sister? Maybe gays should be fighting for that too.
    gays wouldn't be marrying their sister ...that's more of a red neck right-wing thing to do.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post

    Absolutely, HOWEVER, if we are going to permit the government to establish an unconstitutional institution it makes no sense to cry afoul when it runs amiss of the Constitution. A gay couple has as much of a "right" to a state-sanctioned marriage as I do to a minority housing grant.
    That's where we disagree. We agree that the government should get out of the marriage business. However, my position is that if we are going to allow the government to stay in the marriage business, they should be required to comply with the Constitutional safeguard of equal protection. Your "minority housing grant" argument fails because it would undergo a different analysis under equal protection than gay marriage would. One involves a Constitutionally recognized fundamental right, the other does not.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    joke Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    You mean it's against the law to marry your sister? Maybe gays should be fighting for that too.
    Familial Relation is a protected class, after all...AND I'm already living with her, helping to rais her kids, sharing bills, etc.

    Why shouldn't 2 consenting adults be allowed to enter into the strictly legal contract of marriage when we can enter into any other kind of contract? I mean we're only talking about like 2% of the population.

    Some people don't care for familial-marriage, and that's fine, their church is free to decline to hold our ceremony.

    If you don't like Familial Marriage, don't marry one. I respect your choice so you should respect mine.

    If you're going to start talking about inbreed children with genetic diseases then you need to explain why other people with genetic diseases are allowed to marry. The only tangible difference between the 2 is that one couple is related and the other is not. That's Discrimination....unless you're going to propose legislation to ban marriages where genetic diseases are assured.

    Where’s the data showing that brothers and sisters can not raise a child just as good as a non related couple?

    I would argue that the social bonds of a related couple are stronger since the siblings grew up together, and thus there would be a significantly lower divorce rate among Familial couples than unrelated couples. You unrelated couples just go to a drive-through chapel in Vegas and get the Marriage Combo #2 (upper-size Elvis-fries). With the likes of Britney Speers as your poster child I really don’t see how you think you have a valid objection to Incest.

    Who is the government to legislate who I can love?

    The government needs to stay out of the bedroom.

    We should just do away with “marriage” altogether and only have civil unions. Let people define their own relationships and keep your nose out of it!
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-07-09 at 10:15 AM.

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