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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    The purpose of the institution of marriage is to promote the formation and maintenance the Nuclear Family, as this is in the best interests of any children being raised and by extension society as a whole.

    Are you claiming that two men can't raise a child as good as or better than a man and a woman or that two men two women can't be a nuclear family?
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Marriage is not a right. It is a discriminatory institution that confers benefits upon a specifically defined group of people. If people are going to claim a gay couple has the "right" to a marriage then I'm going to claim I have a "right" to a minority housing grant.
    I agree... minority grants and such are just as discriminating...
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    They may or may not support gay marriage, I doubt highly that the issue was ever given much thought at the time (what do you think?), but I can guarantee one thing...they would support equal protection and standards of fairness...and ultimately that is what is involved in this issue.
    Equal protection and fairness have never been a part of this issue, nor will they ever be a part of this issue.

    "Fairness" requires a bit more than people crying "unfair!".

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Are you claiming that two men can't raise a child as good as or better than a man and a woman or that two men two women can't be a nuclear family?
    If The People decided to allow gay marriage because the evidence shows that gays can raise children just as well as there hetero counter parts, fine; but it's still not a civil rights issue.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Are you claiming that two men can't raise a child as good as or better than a man and a woman or that two men two women can't be a nuclear family?
    Are you claiming that marriage is a necessity to raise a child, or to form a family?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Equal protection and fairness have never been a part of this issue, nor will they ever be a part of this issue.

    "Fairness" requires a bit more than people crying "unfair!".


    Sorry Celt...but Equal Protection and Fairness are a part of every issue under the Constitution. You might want to take a look.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If The People decided to allow gay marriage because the evidence shows that gays can raise children just as well as there hetero counter parts, fine; but it's still not a civil rights issue.
    If marriage were strictly about raising children, then only fertile couples that signed a pledge that they would reproduce would be allowed to wed. That's just a silly argument.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry Celt...but Equal Protection and Fairness are a part of every issue under the Constitution. You might want to take a look.
    I demand a minority housing grant. Equal protection under the law.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethereal View Post
    Marriage is not a right. It is a discriminatory institution that confers benefits upon a specifically defined group of people. If people are going to claim a gay couple has the "right" to a marriage then I'm going to claim I have a "right" to a minority housing grant.
    Normaly I wouldn't respond to a post as ignorent as this one, however it seems that I don't have a Standerd Issue Responce on file for such a claim, so here we go...


    Jerry's Standard Issue Response #26:

    Marriage is, in fact, a "Fundimental Right"...
    LOVING v. VIRGINIA
    ...These statutes also deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

    Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival
    .....
    Skinner v. Oklahoma, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942). See also Maynard v. Hill, 125 U.S. 190 (1888)....
    SKINNER v. STATE OF OKL.
    ....But the instant legislation runs afoul of the equal protection clause, though we give Oklahoma that large deference which the rule of the foregoing cases requires. We are dealing here with legislation which involves one of the basic civil rights of man. Marriage and procreation are fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race....
    ...but what does that even mean?

    The Supreme Court has adopted the doctrine of a constitutional “fundamental right to marry,” and has construed this doctrine to mean a fundamental right to state-recognized legal-marriage. However, the doctrine has several problems:
    • The Court never satisfactorily explains why marriage is a fundamental right;
    • The Court never defines the boundaries of marriage as a fundamental right; and..
    • The Court has occasionally treated marriage as if it were not a fundamental right.


    Further, the idea of a “fundamental right to marry” contains a debilitating internal contradiction: the notion of a fundamental right implies firm privileges which the state cannot deny, define, or disrespect, but marriage boundaries (the legal rules establishing who is eligible to marry whom, what formalities are required for marriage, and the legal ramifications of marriage) in the United States have always been subject to almost plenary state control which denies some marriages and refuses to give legal effect to others. What can a “right to marry” protecting individuals against the state possibly mean when the state itself determines what this thing called “marriage” is?

    Two observations about marriage suggest the answer to this question.
    First: The word “marriage” carries several different meanings which are related to each other but conceptually distinct. The “fundamental right to marry” conundrum arises in part from the conflation of these various meanings.
    Second: The history of western marriage regulation—particularly the contemporary rejection of the traditional beliefs about sexuality and marriage that once provided principled boundaries for a right to marry—explains why the various meanings of marriage often are conflated today, and it suggests how the law can escape the “fundamental right to marry” conundrum. The Supreme Court should reinterpret the fundamental right to marry as referring to the practice of personal-marriage behaviors (cohabitation, economic partnership, joint decision-making, etc.) rather than state-recognized legal-marriage. This would preserve the entrenched idea of a fundamental right to marry while cohering wit! h the negative liberty nature of the Court’s other recognized fundamental rights and accommodating the reality that the Constitution does not (currently) textually define or even mention marriage in any way.


    SUGGESTED CITATION:
    Joseph A. Pull, "Questioning the Fundamental Right to Marry" (May 25, 2006). Yale Law School. Yale Law School Student Scholarship Series. Paper 26.

    Yale Law School

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sorry Celt...but Equal Protection and Fairness are a part of every issue under the Constitution. You might want to take a look.
    Apology accepted....because while fairness and equal protection are part of the Constitution, this is not a Constitutional issue (nor is it justiciable under the Constitution).

    In order to establish a need for relief, you must first establish a violation of right. LambdaLegal's posturing notwithstanding, this has not been done.

    Nor has it been established that gay marriage is the correct remedy. For reasons I have discussed elsewhere on DP, I believe a persuasive argument exists that gay marriage is not the correct remedy.

    Finally and most crucially, even if gay marriage is an equitable remedy, courts do not have the competence to rewrite laws, nor government regulations. This is not an issue that courts have the power to decide; this is not an issue the courts should ever have the power to decide.

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