Page 27 of 61 FirstFirst ... 17252627282937 ... LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 602

Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

  1. #261
    Sage
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    08-27-09 @ 08:41 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    6,344

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Ok here is the proof of my point they allowed FREE SPEECH. If they were religious in nature they would want ONLY religious speech.
    A religious man cannot discourse upon secular topics?

    A religious man cannot hold secular views?

    I cannot accept your seeming view of the religious man. Religious men do still live in the world, and do still have their opinions on the world.

  2. #262
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    Specific morals may be subjective. The need for morals is absolute. The need for religion is absolute, all the more so because we espouse the freedom to practice any religion.
    Also. the freedom to practice NO religion. That negates the absolute need for religion. This need is subjective. What isn't subjective is the right to practice or not practice religion.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #263
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Ok here is the proof of my point they allowed FREE SPEECH. If they were religious in nature they would want ONLY religious speech.
    Since the FF were religious, the first amendment demonstrates that religious men support free speach.

    Keep in mind that if it weren't for this group of religious white men, you would be under the authority of crown and the Church of England.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Nowhere did the founding fathers specifically say marriage is between a man and a woman.
    That's exactly why marriage should be dealt with on the state level.

  4. #264
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Also. the freedom to practice NO religion. That negates the absolute need for religion. This need is subjective. What isn't subjective is the right to practice or not practice religion.
    I might ague that religion (any religion) is a necessary agent of socialization of any society. Could you give an example of a successful and thriving modern atheist society?

  5. #265
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I hear ya



    The entire point of my post was to refute your premise:


    No mention of procreation, you said. No mention at all.

    Clearly procreation is an expected function of marriage. While a few exceptions have been granted to protect children and families from falling through the cracks (exceptions such as adoption), those exceptions prove the rule. Exceptions such as adoption in no way separate procreation from marriage.

    In this way gay-marriage seeks to redefine what the institution of marriage is, and therefore even what your own marriage is. While you are free to give your personal marriage various meanings, all such meanings are additions and amendments to the institution.

    ***
    The modern gay-marriage movement is not based on the family. It is based on the assertion of personal rights.

    Marriage is not about the assertion of personal rights.
    I think I clarified my position, here:

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Procreation as a reason for the state to have a compelling interest in marriage is negated by the fact that obtaining a marriage license is not contingent on the agreement to have children. If it were, since marriage is a contract, if a couple decided to not procreate, the marriage license would be void.
    Procreation is not the issue. Child-rearing is.

    And you know I agree with you on the pro-GM movement. If they focused on the family, this issue would already be resolved.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #266
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    It has EVERYTHING to do with equality. America has a history of injustice, but ultimately gets it right....slowly but eventually. If not tomorrow....then the day after that.
    Disney, Jerry's right on this. The equality argument is a failing argument that destines the issue to go 'round and 'round. There is plenty of evidence that gay marriage is beneficial to both society and families. Equality comes along for the ride, but, in as far as government sanctioning gay marriage, not only is equality a weak argument, but in the context of our current marital laws, it is a failed argument. Current laws do not support gay marriage, and the equity argument, alone, is not strong enough to overrule them. The social and family benefit argument is.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #267
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Denying gay marriage is, "not allowing" gays to marry.
    Not allowing them to marry is not equal to those that are allowed to marry.
    Since one is being denied equality, being denied gay marriage has everything to do with equality, or lack of.

    So, I asked, do you think that "not allowing", equals "equality". I can't see how in the world any person can think that denying rights or anything to a person or group constitutes equality, or making things equal for people or groups. That help?
    I CANNOT BELIEVE I AM GOING TO DO THIS.

    Bodi, tell me how the equity argument can show benefits for the government's compelling interest in supporting marriage. Please do this WITHOUT using either family, children, or health to back your argument...only equality.

    I suspect all you will have left is "not being allowed to be equal is bad", but give it a go.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #268
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Keep telling yourself that Jerry. The reality is...it has EVERYTHING to do with equality. That's the point of equal protection
    The equality argument is a coattail and ancillary part of this issue. Societal and familial benefits are the meat.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  9. #269
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    The great French reactionary Bonald deals with this argument in his tract On Divorce where he attacks the revolutionary legislation that allowed divorce(which he later helped to overturn under the restoration.).

    He states that marriage is a contract(in terms reminiscent of Burke's ideas on the social contract.)but it is actually a contract with three parties, the spouses and the children who are to spring from it and require the nurture of a stable familial relationship, therefore to dissolve it is according to the will of the two spouses is to rob both society, which requires offspring and stable families, and the children themselves, even if they are not yet born. And even in the case of no children that is no excuse, it devalues the nature of marriage in society for a course which will not necessarily produce children itself(ie a second marriage.).

    I'm not sure I agree with him completely on divorce but he makes some interesting points that at least should be aired when people trot out views on marriage as if it is just a contract like any other.

    But the main point is that the fact marriage licenses do not contain the agreement to produce children and give them a stable familial setting, does not mean this is not an important role of the congenial family, if not the most important. An institution can have important roles that differ from its usual ideational place in a society, in fact they can be far more important.
    Good post, one I do not completely disagree with. Ideology-wise, I think we'd both find some common ground. Pragmatically, however, I stand by my statement.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #270
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,647

    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Capt'n, it's like questioning a mod action on this board.

    A given incident may not be that bad, and in fact many acts of questioning mod actions may be relatively harmless or 3 point infractions at worst.

    However, a strict rule with rigid enforcement and a harsh penalty needs to be in place to preserve the overall cohesiveness of many threads over a long period of time.

    If you begin to allow exceptions to the rule then the rule is chipped away at, more and more threads degrade into bickering over rules technicalities (= your refrences to adoption and infertile hetero couples), more and more questions are pressed and challenges made until finally the mod's authority collapses.

    The same concept is true of marriage. Gay marriage itself may not be so bad, but the more we allow people to chip away at the rule the less meaning and authority that rule has; until finally it the social bond itself collapses.
    Interesting analogy. I would look at it differently. Societal norms change, requiring societal and legal rules to change. That does not mean society in and of itself breaks down or will.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

Page 27 of 61 FirstFirst ... 17252627282937 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •