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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Again none of what you said refutes what I said. Try again.
    What you said wasn't an actual argument, it was a non-sequitur which relied on the premise that the constitution, which of course was for a federal system where the states had their own denominational arrangements, needs to mention religion to be made for a moral and religious people. The conclusions do not follow from the premise, it refutes itself.
    Last edited by Wessexman; 04-05-09 at 01:31 AM.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    What you said wasn't an actual argument, it was a non-sequitur which relied on the premise that the constitution, which of course was for a federal system where the states had their own denominational arrangements, needs to mention religion to be made for a moral and religious people.
    Your argument is that the constitution was for the religious and moral when nothing suggests such a thing, so your whole argument is subjective because you can't back up your claims.

  3. #253
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Your argument is that the constitution was for the religious and moral when nothing suggests such a thing, so your whole argument is subjective because you can't back up your claims.
    Well Jerry has already quoted one FF in support. I can quote more if you like.


    We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. James Madison

    Let them revere nothing but Religion, Morality, and Liberty... Religion and Virtue are the only foundations, not only of republicanism and of all free governments, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society. John Adams

    Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. George Waswhigton
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Well Jerry has already quoted one FF in support. I can quote more if you like.


    We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. James Madison

    Let them revere nothing but Religion, Morality, and Liberty... Religion and Virtue are the only foundations, not only of republicanism and of all free governments, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society. John Adams

    Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. George Waswhigton
    And the FF recognized that morals were subjective. That is why the Christian faith wasn't listed as an absolute.

    That is why Porn is legal. So deal with that little fact.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And the FF recognized that morals were subjective. That is why the Christian faith wasn't listed as an absolute.

    That is why Porn is legal. So deal with that little fact.
    Your argument is another non sequitur. Your conclusions do not follow from your premise and you do not support anything you claim.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Your argument is another non sequitur. Your conclusions do not follow from your premise and you do not support anything you claim.
    You calim anything is non-sequitur if they don't agree with you. The simple fact is the FF didn't agree with you. That is why they didn't make religious morals the foundation.

    It was ALL subjective.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    You calim anything is non-sequitur if they don't agree with you.
    Really care to prove that? Show me all the times I have disagree with someone and show they were all over non sequiturs. I disagreed with you because you committed them.

    You don't make arguments, just sullen, childish assertions.


    The simple fact is the FF didn't agree with you.
    Accept I have proved they did and you have shown nothing.

    That is why they didn't make religious morals the foundation.
    Prove your point, don't make assertions and non sequiturs or don't expect to be taken seriously.

    It was ALL subjective.
    If it was all subjective they wouldn't have mentioned it. If they weren't generally sure raping and pillaging wasn't as good for the nation as people being restrained and earning an honest day's living they would have even bothered mentioning morality\. No nihilist preaches the value of a moral and religious people as the FF's did.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    Prove your point, don't make assertions and non sequiturs or don't expect to be taken seriously.
    Ok here is the proof of my point they allowed FREE SPEECH. If they were religious in nature they would want ONLY religious speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    If it was all subjective they wouldn't have mentioned it. If they weren't generally sure raping and pillaging wasn't as good for the nation as people being restrained and earning an honest day's living they would have even bothered mentioning morality\. No nihilist preaches the value of a moral and religious people as the FF's did.
    Nowhere did the founding fathers specifically say marriage is between a man and a woman. And since they didn't specifiy free speech as only religious, your point is dis proven.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Ok here is the proof of my point they allowed FREE SPEECH. If they were religious in nature they would want ONLY religious speech
    This is what I mean. Your conclusion does not follow from the premise.

    Aside from the fact they were talking only of the feds, there is nothing that says being religious means you have to be against free speech. That is a non sequitur and a strawman.

    Nowhere did the founding fathers specifically say marriage is between a man and a woman. And since they didn't specifiy free speech as only religious, your point is dis proven.
    How? You're not even making any sense.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And the FF recognized that morals were subjective. That is why the Christian faith wasn't listed as an absolute.

    That is why Porn is legal. So deal with that little fact.
    Specific morals may be subjective. The need for morals is absolute. The need for religion is absolute, all the more so because we espouse the freedom to practice any religion.

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