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Thread: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well there are people that can't have kids that get involved with marriages. So your point is moot.
    See Capt'n? Exceptions to the rule are used to further degrade the rule itself.

    ***
    Imo the law alone can not resolve the issue, ever. Using only the law, we either have to issue a marriage under the strictest conditions and alienate adoption and couples who don't know they're infertile, or, we have to allow just anyone to marry just anyone and marriage become non-functional.

    This is why the Constitution was meant for "a religious and moral people". The Constitution is not equipped to deal with a society who does not share a common general understanding of the Natural Law premise.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-05-09 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well there are people that can't have kids that get involved with marriages. So your point is moot.
    Not really. This is the direct argument of Bonald's I was drawing from. The fact they can't have children does not lessen the social role of marriage to produce and raise children in a stable environment. You are simply confused by the fact that the ideational place of marriage in our society is far wider than the strict functionalism we are talking about.

    Either Marriage is a contract that means you will produce kids or it is a contract in where the production of kids doesn't matter.

    The fact is marriage is a contract where the production of kids doesn't matter.

    So bringing up that marriage CAN produce kids doesn't make it ANYWAY a matter of legality. Case closed on that. Come up with a better reason.
    Again the main role of marriage or any institution need not be its main ideational one. So your argument fails.

    Now I'm not arguing here against GM, simply that a major social role of marriage is creating stable relationships for children to be raised in and as the centre of the important kinship association which helps to support the individual and maintain his freedom, personality and meaning in life. It does this though while enmeshed in other institutions and within its own ideational, or ideological, place in society that is distinct from but feeds into this.

    I'm simply interested in not causing this to be lost within these debates.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    This is why the Constitution was meant for "a religious and moral people". The Constitution is not equipped to deal with a society who does not share a common general understanding of the Natural Law premise.
    If the constitution was meant for a religious and moral people, freedom of speech would not have been allowed.

    It seems you are the one that is at a loss. Maybe Iran would better suit your "Morals".
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 04-05-09 at 12:58 AM.

  4. #234
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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Lib View Post
    I agree with your preferred solution because I believe strongly in the separation of church and state. In the church's eyes (because marriage WAS initially a sacrament received through the church) marriage should be between a man and a woman, and I find that to be completely acceptable. What I find to be unacceptable and downright discriminatory is the lack of a suitable alternative for homosexuals. The reason its unjust and discriminatory is because of the social benefits that a homosexual couple has no option of getting. Let a gay couple have rights such as insurance, life and death benefits and take the title off of it completely. Send it through another office and put a different name tag on it, but don't strip a couple of the rights that every other straight couple is entitled to just because of a word.
    Absolutely, but...

    no court is empowered to create government agencies, establish new government standards, or rewrite government regulations.

    Yes, there is a potent argument for injustice within the topic of gay marriage, but that argument requires legislative not judicial remedy. As Marbury v. Madison clearly demonstrates, it is possible for a court to acknowledge the right without needing to manufacture a remedy when that remedy is distinctly beyond its competence.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    If the constitution was meant for a religious and moral people, freedom of speech would not have been allowed.

    It seems you are the one that is at a loss. Maybe Iran would better suit your "Morals".
    Oh wow, your personal attacks totaly changed my point of view

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    If the constitution was meant for a religious and moral people, freedom of speech would not have been allowed.
    That is a non sequitur. The conclusion is far from necessary from the premise.
    "It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Oh wow, your personal attacks totaly changed my point of view
    Not a personal attack just a comment on someone who feels the constitution sho0uld be only for religious and moral people.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    That is a non sequitur. The conclusion is far from necessary from the premise.
    so you think the U.S. constitution is only meant for a religious and moral people?

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by lawshume View Post
    I know it's futile to post in such a flooded thread, but it's my
    human duty to say this: with the problems we face today,
    it doesn't matter. This issue is just a diversion.
    It's not futile, merely wrong.

    THIS issue especially is not a diversion. The rights of men, the manner and modes by which people will live their lives, are at the core of what a free and democratic society is all about.

    This is a debate which needs to happen, and forums such as DP are the place where it needs to happen--not in legislative chambers, but among people. It is here, not a courtroom or a house of Congress, where social consensus is formed. It is here that the will of "we the people" crystallizes and takes shape.

    This discussion especially is worth the time and the trouble.

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    Re: Iowa Court says gay marriage ban unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by celticlord View Post
    It's not futile, merely wrong.

    THIS issue especially is not a diversion. The rights of men, the manner and modes by which people will live their lives, are at the core of what a free and democratic society is all about.

    This is a debate which needs to happen, and forums such as DP are the place where it needs to happen--not in legislative chambers, but among people. It is here, not a courtroom or a house of Congress, where social consensus is formed. It is here that the will of "we the people" crystallizes and takes shape.

    This discussion especially is worth the time and the trouble.
    Holy ****!!!!! I actually agree with Celtic for once.

    There has to be an alignment of planets somewhere for this one to happen.

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